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Are reductionism and foundationalism(first principle)the same thing, or at least highly similar even if different? The first-principles approach is the same as deducing all knowledge claims from axioms which cannot be derived from more fundamental axioms. This is the same as what we have called axiomatic inquiry, initiated by Euclid. In contrast to this, is empirical inquiry which arrives at knowledge and justifies knowledge claims on the basis of observation.

These possibly seem similar, to some extent, but how much, if at all?

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    This is a bunch of vague and ambiguous terminology. You need a lot more context to make this question meaningful. Jul 8, 2023 at 6:15
  • What on Earth does Elon Musk have to do with thinking from first principles? You've also asked a 2nd quite substantial question. You should ask it seperately.
    – CriglCragl
    Jul 8, 2023 at 9:02
  • No - not the same. Keyword search [Elon Musk first principles youtube] turns up a bunch of videos with his discussion of first principles thinking. Links are not answers to questions but I offer a link. I recommend watching this 43 minute video which covers the complexity of our causal reasoning in an engineering, physics, and system analysis: On the Nature of Causality in Complex Systems, George F.R. Ellis - youtu.be/nEhTkF3eG8Q. In my experience we recognize humans as the moral cause(s) of ethical outcomes but without any compelling analytical "system reduction models". Jul 9, 2023 at 1:54
  • Is this a homework question? As for Musk, I imagine his one-time partnership with Peter Thiel exposed him to Thiel's pseudophilosophy, which given Musk's apparent personality disorder would have done little but make Musk worse at thinking than he already is. But so Thiel's "importance of foundations" bit in Zero to One comes to mind. Sep 26, 2023 at 20:52
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    Anti-reductionism such as emergentism or holism has no first principles?... Sep 27, 2023 at 23:46

2 Answers 2

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First principles means that we take whatever knowledge there is and try to find routes from that to the principle, in an unbroken chain of logical connection. There is no a priori preference.

Reductionism favours a certain kind of knowledge and maps all other kinds of knowledge as different representations of the same.

The problems start when first principle starts to fail and discard all knowledge that does not fit the system as secondary, ie. first principle philosophy starts to become reductionist fast. That's because the existing variance of knowledge/experience does have a tendency to resist conceptual neatness.

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  • please give me some examples
    – quanity
    Sep 27, 2023 at 17:58
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It's less about what's vaguely different between those two, and more about what's commensurable or incommensurable for them. What epistemic graph theory suggests, for example (in its "semantics," which is, however, often merged with its syntax), is that reductionism could be interpreted as a specific kind of epistemic graph,E which is structurally very similar, perhaps on some level even isomorphic to, foundationalism, which would answer your question in the affirmative on its own other level.

Alternatively, then, we might yet rank foundationalism as deeper than reductionism, in part on account of the direction-of-action: foundationalism proceeds from seeds to crowns of flowers and leaves, reductionism is a little ant crawling down the tree to see the roots. So there is a context in which it is reasonable to judge these doctrines sufficiently distinct to merit claiming the possibility of all permutations of absence and presence, here: either one is true and the other (whichever) isn't, neither is true (not always true, that is...), or both are true; so 4 options total.

Historically-speaking, for what it's worth, we should add in some of sec. 3.3 of the SEP article on the Vienna Circle:

How then can Vienna Circle philosophy be absolved of foundationalism? As noted, it is the Aufbau (and echoes of it in the manifesto) that invites the charge of phenomenalist reductionism. To begin with, one must distinguish between the strategy of reductionism and the ambition of foundationalism. Concerning the Aufbau it has been argued that its strategy of reconstructing empirical knowledge from the position of methodological solipsism (phenomenalism without its ontological commitments and some of its epistemological ambitions) is owed not to foundationalist aims but to the ease by which this position seemed to allow the demonstration of the interlocking and structural nature of our system of empirical concepts, a system that exhibited unity and afforded objectivity, which was Carnap’s main concern. (See Friedman’s path-breaking 1987 and 1992, and Richardson 1990, 1998, Ryckman 1991, Pincock 2002, 2005. For the wide variety of influences on the Aufbau more generally, see Damböck 2016.) However, it is hard to deny categorically that Carnap ever harbored foundationalist ambitions. Not only did Carnap locate his Aufbau very close to foundationalism in retrospect (1963a), but a passage in his (1930) led Uebel (2007, Ch.6) to claim that around 1929/30 Carnap was motivated by foundationalist principles and reinterpreted his own Aufbau along these lines (around the same time that Wittgenstein entertained a psychologistic reinterpretation of his own Tractatus that was reported back to the Circle by Waismann). To correct this foundationalist aberration was the task of the Circle’s subsequent protocol-sentence debate about the content, form and status of the evidence statements of science.

What this gets at is that reduction-to-sense-data, for example, has a foundationalist gist to it: observation reports of sense data purportedly being infallible and fundamental, they then go on to form (if via inductive reasoning) axioms for deductions therefrom, or more poetically of the "logical construction of objects from sense data" (in Russell's sense(!)). A reduction of macroscopic to microscopic physics, on the other hand, might not seem especially concerned with the direction of the evidence as such, or proceeds just as willingly from quantum information to biological spacetime, and then back and forth further and in more directions, etc. etc. forever and ever, amen. Now, though, we find a distinction between reductionism and foundationalism whereby the former is, in part, a subtype of the latter: sense-data/logical-construction theory, which is reductionist on account of being foundationalist to boot.


EOne might say: foundationalism is to reductionism what coherentism is to holism, to some extent, e.g. possibly isomorphic (see the remainder of the above).


Further reading:

  1. Tho[20], "Mechanical Philosophy: Reductionism and Foundationalism."
  2. Berker[13], "Coherentism via Graphs."
  3. Mullins[19], "Infinite Cycles and the Graphical Approach to Epistemic Justification."
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    I think it's fair to say that reductionism is hyponym to foundationalism where this is semantic grounding from one ontology to another to establish a partial or full broad logical correspondence (a metaphysical necessity) to justify in part or whole the top ontology by the bottom. Eliminative materialism for instance attempts to show that the entire mental ontology reduces entirely to the physical. The graph theoretic representation of reduction is one of modality of justification instead.
    – J D
    Sep 27, 2023 at 15:22
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    And +1 for your usual thoroughness and references from outside the box.
    – J D
    Sep 27, 2023 at 15:23
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    Yeah, I think you're right to cite that as a logical technique, reductionism can be seen in the broader epistemological strategies for relating distinct domains of discourse. You can reduce in the context of circularity or sequentially regardless of whether or not that's done in a finite manner. Reduction in this way is foundational, but not foundationalism, unless the reduction occurs in the context of a foundationalist perspective. If you buy into Quine's argument about Neurath's boat, than I think it's fair to say that real-world epistemological graphs would be untidy and hybrid.
    – J D
    Sep 27, 2023 at 16:01
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    As far as the relationship between coherentism and foundationalism, now you're varying not the toplogical characterization in terms of Munchausen's Trilemma, but the truth-semantical empahsis. Is the epistemelogical structure mental-mental in terms of domains of discourse or is it mental physical (which would be correspondent). Of course, I should share that I visualize the process as a model granting two large metaphysical domains (mental and physical) with structures in each. The internal structure is coherent, and the isomorphisms in each domain would be correspondent. Deflation would be...
    – J D
    Sep 27, 2023 at 16:04
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    I guess necessarily a third sub-domain of the mental, because there would be the conscious modeling of linguistic artififacts and abstractions of and operations therefrom. Which makes the entire structure recursive in the sense that domains of discourse themselves start out as linguistic artifacts before they are recognized as such. Talk about chasing arrows!
    – J D
    Sep 27, 2023 at 16:05

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