What would it mean for the herd to be victorious over the overman? What would that amount to? I assume that the herd has its perverse plans, born out of ressentiment, for the ubermensch, and they will lie and cheat to achieve their goals. But if we say that the herd cannot be victorious, does that make for everyone's life being the same trivial nonsense?

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    The Overman is not one specific person, but a stereotype. It represent a person who has surpassed the herd's "christian morality" and ideas of Good or Evil, does not look forward to an afterlife, acts purposefully without regret (can face the eternal return), embodies aristocratic values, etc... Nietsche himself is never clear about what it means so YMMV depending on interpretations. "The Overman" is a concept. What do you mean by "the herd is victorious over the Overman"? Do you mean "the herd beats one specific overman", or "the herd prevents the advent of any overman?"
    – armand
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 1:46
  • hm i suppose i am being too realist about it @armand and wondering what would it mean if an overman's arrival is frustrated, their power denied them, etc.. i suppose the obvious answer is beethoven and goethe and perhaps nietzsche
    – user67521
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 1:48
  • It would help if you cited the exact passage you are thinking of. Nietzsche is not always consistent.
    – Mary
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 2:00
  • ok is the section on the last men meant to be what happens when the herd "beats" the overman @Mary
    – user67521
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 2:13
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    A dilemma!!! my favorite dish!! Deus Magnus Est, no?
    – Hudjefa
    Commented Sep 1, 2023 at 6:42


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