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Is there any more evidence for God than Russell’s teapot? As a reminder, Russell’s teapot is related to the notion of a teapot orbiting around the earth [the sun].

If there is more evidence, then I suppose it would explain why so many philosophers have seriously believed in God. If there isn’t, is the regular talk of God in philosophy unjustified?

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    – Philip Klöcking
    Commented Sep 5 at 7:55
  • There's no evidence of God that raises from Russell's Teapot. The fact that non believers should prove their position does not make the opposite claim a truth.
    – RodolfoAP
    Commented Sep 6 at 17:33
  • But Russel had God in mind when he created the treapot analogy, since he did that in the context of religion. So, the kind of evidence required about the existence or inexistence of the teapot is the same with that about the existence or inexistence of God. No more, no less.
    – Apostolos
    Commented Sep 7 at 15:47

9 Answers 9

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The purpose of Russell's teapot analogy is, as Russell himself wrote, to address:

Many orthodox people speak[ing] as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them.

The purpose of the analogy is to clarify where the burden of proof rests (i.e. with people claiming God exists), not to directly claim that the teapot and God has the same amount of evidence.

Some skeptics say there is "no" evidence for God, while others say there's no "good" evidence for God, or that the evidence is insufficient. This disparity is not generally because people disagree about what the available facts are, but rather because they disagree about how to define "evidence" or they disagree about the methods for evaluating or determining belief.

If one says there's no evidence for God, and there's no evidence for the teapot, then they have the same amount of evidence: none. If one says there's no "good" evidence for God, then God might have more (bad) evidence than the teapot, but it's still not enough to warrant belief.


One could also talk about forms of "negative" evidence that might arguably shift this in one direction or the other.

For example, one might say someone human from Earth would've needed to put the teapot there, and given the amount of time and money it requires to get into space, the lack of evidence of people having done that is evidence against it. Although one might respond that aliens could've put it there, or maybe it formed naturally, maybe it's a rock teapot.

One could also talk about negative evidence for god. These would be evidence against specific god claims (the category of "god" is too broad for something to be evidence against all possible gods). As examples, consider: the problem of evil/suffering, divine hiddenness, the problem of inconsistent relevation, the problem of hell, the problem of poor design and the omnipotence paradox (which I'd probably say is the weakest of these).

It's probably not too useful to compare God to the teapot for all of this - this goes way beyond what the analogy was intended to demonstrate.


If there is more evidence, then I suppose it would explain why so many philosophers have seriously believed in god.

Russell's teapot was never seriously presented as a thing that actually exists, and it's a negligible claim with no emotional appeal (perhaps intentionally so). So it doesn't make for a great comparison to explain anything about why people believe in god.

If you want to compare god beliefs to something, you could compare it to other god beliefs (people don't all believe in the same god, and what they believe can't all be true... but it can all be false). Or compare it to aliens, ghosts, chakras, magical crystals, auras, astrology, etc.

If there isn’t, are most of them living in delusion?

You could similarly flip this around: if there is more evidence, are most people who don't believe living in delusion?

It always annoys me when people accuse others of being "delusional" (although it's often religious people feigning offense, e.g. "are you accusing us of being delusional", in response to skeptics challenging the claims they make). Either the thing you believe is true, or the thing you believe is not true. Either you're justified in believing that thing, or you're not justified in believing that thing. Terms like "delusional" are little more than personal attacks (or attempts to accuse your opponent of throwing personal attacks) which distract from whether or not some claim is true or whether believing it is justified.

Across time, many people believed in a variety of gods, and many people didn't. That, by itself, doesn't really tell you anything.

One might generally try to understand why people believe false or unjustified things. Much of that comes down to cognitive biases. People fear death and struggle with losing loved ones, so they may have a bias towards a belief that offers an escape: eternal life. They fear being tortured for all of eternity (hell), so they may refrain from questioning their religion (and thereby concluding that hell isn't real), because they believe that would or might land them in hell. They may a bias against saying "I don't know", they may want justice, they may fear randomly dying due to illness or injury, they may want a protector, they may want a grounding for their morality, they may want some greater purpose, we have a tendency to stick to their beliefs, there is social pressure (ranging between not wanting people to roll their eyes at you, not wanting to be completely ostracised by everyone you know, or not wanting to literally be murdered), etc. All of that potentially feeds into someone's belief in a god (but that's distinct from whether any given god claim is true or whether believing it is justified).

One might get a bit more insights by comparing rates of theism between certain groups - that's somewhat tangential to whether what they believe is true, but it might give some insight about biases and fallacies and such (in our own thinking as well).

Since you specifically mentioned philosophers, I'll note that a solid 67% of philosophers in 2020 accept or lean towards atheism (with an additional 7-8% being agnostic).

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  • @Rushi Plenty of theists go beyond just saying "God exists", to the point of saying it's unreasonable for a person to doubt God's existence. You kind of have to believe that if you consider disbelief to be a sin that's deserving of eternal torture (as many believe), while also maintaining that God is just.
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Sep 4 at 11:24
  • @Rushi He's *disagreeing* with very strong theists, which my first comment says, but maybe there was some miscommunication. He says "But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense".
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Sep 4 at 11:40
  • One nitpick: Evidence never is a reason for belief. Evidence is a reason for knowing. Commented Sep 5 at 8:13
  • "Across time, many people believed in a variety of gods, and many people didn't" Until recent times (maybe 200 years ago) theism was a very common and prevalent concept. Commented Sep 5 at 10:11
  • @Peter-ReinstateMonica: That seems too strong a statement - evidence can be strongly suggestive, without being conclusive!
    – psmears
    Commented Sep 5 at 15:57
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There is no evidence for Russell’s teapot. Because that’s an ironical comment of Russell to show that the burden of proof lies on the person who makes an unusual claim.

There is also no evidence for the existence of god.

But there is overwhelming evidence for the existence of the belief in god - the belief is even a fact. And it is the task of sociology and psychology of religion to explain the wide spread and the strenght of this belief.

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    this seems somewhat hard nosed to me, given that arguments for god can be understood. as you say, belief in the teapot cannot be justified at all.
    – andrós
    Commented Sep 4 at 23:22
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    are the arguments for god so bad that they don't raise our credence above zero? idk what that would mean, given that we would believe in teapots given enough reports from the (scientific) press etc..
    – andrós
    Commented Sep 4 at 23:30
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    An unsourced assertion of fact, making yourself the source, is not generally considered a good answer here. I am disappointed in our philosophy community, making this the highest ranked answer. It is blatantly false. Every religion provides a set of miracle stories, that are evidential justification for the religion. Additionally, theologians have crafted a set of additional arguments, including Prime Mover, and Fine Tuning, which are more theoretical supporting evidence. The widespread sociological adoption of religion, based on a presumption that true beliefs give advantage, is more.
    – Dcleve
    Commented Sep 5 at 4:17
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    "no evidence for the existence of god"? Many people claim to have interacted with God, that is anecdotal evidence. It's not proof, that's a higher standard.
    – Barmar
    Commented Sep 5 at 14:34
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    "no evidence for the existence of god"? The existence of the Universe is often cited as evidence. It's certainly not proof, and not an argument that I personally accept, but its kinda hard to ignore!
    – MikeB
    Commented Sep 5 at 15:40
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There is some evidence (although arguably weak) for the existence of a God, and therefore this is more evidence for the existence of a God than for the Teapot, at least using a broad definition of evidence.

Russell's Teapot was meant to be a thought experiment used primarily to illustrate the burden of proof. There is of course no evidence for it and no one is meant to seriously believe that there is a teapot floating by itself in space. Thus, any evidence for the existence of God is more evidence than for the teapot.

This leaves open a question for what constitutes evidence, which is a large topic in epistemology. But let us assume that it is something along the lines of "something which makes the thing in question more or less likely". That is a simplified version of the definition used in some U.S. legal jurisdictions and is a decent intuitive definition. (This would be insufficient under many definitions put forward in formal epistemology, but that is a very complicated topic that I don't even claim to be able to do justice to without some time to research. The actual legal definition for "relevant evidence" in Nevada is in NRS 48.015 but that needs to be read in conjunction with the other laws on evidence and cases interpreting it.).

Under that definition, there is some evidence for the existence of a God. However, while there is some evidence, a skeptic is fully justified in saying it is insufficient.

For evidence, first, we have written accounts of people such as Paul formerly known as Saul who claim to have met a divine entity first hand and under circumstances that left no reasonable doubt as to the entity's divinity. These accounts are evidence under this definition since the existence of historical accounts makes something more likely to be true than without the account. It is also very similar to the evidence we have the existence of certain other historical figures that are generally believed to have existed (even if their exploits and foibles may well have been exaggerated by the chronicler).

However, a skeptic might very reasonably call this evidence weak. After all, unlike most historical figures, there might well be reasons to fabricate stories about a divinity. It is not at all uncommon for earlier chroniclers to paint a historical figure in either very good or very bad light. It is fairly rare (though not completely unheard of) for a chronicler to completely make up a figure out of whole cloth without in some way hinting that the work was not meant to be factual. Also, if we are looking at written accounts, then we quickly run into the question of which divinity since there are many, many historical accounts of such encounters and they are of such a nature that it would be impossible or nearly impossible for them to all be true.

Second, we have what is sometimes called the cosmological argument. At the risk of oversimplifying what is a whole category of arguments, essentially it appears that something exists rather than nothing. It appears that everything has a cause. There must therefore be something which exists outside of this causal system capable of creating everything else, sometimes called a first mover. The argument goes that this first mover must be God.

Now, an analysis of the strength of this argument is far beyond the scope of this response, but there are strong rebuttals to it. Also, it leaves open the same question of which divinity or if the divinity implied by the argument has anything to do at all with anything humans have worshipped. Nonetheless, it could be fairly said that the existence of something makes it more likely that there is a divinity than without the existence of something. Thus it is evidence, although perhaps weak evidence.

There are other things that people will claim to be evidence for the existence of God, but two examples seems abundant for this conversation.

Again, the strength of the evidence is arguably quite weak. A skeptic would be well justified in saying it does not even approach the burden of proof that should be demanded for an extraordinary claim such as the existence of a divinity.

But the question was, is there more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the Russel's Teapot. There is no evidence at all for the existence of Russel's Teapot, there is some evidence (even if a skeptic might call it weak and limited) for the existence of a God. So the answer is yes.

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    While the teapot is intended to have no evidence, that doesn't prove the teapot or evidence does not exist. There could be millions of secret COA documents about the teapot, you cannot prove the absence of secret documents. Maybe like baby Jesus, the pit wants to be found, and you have not looked hard enough.
    – tkruse
    Commented Sep 5 at 7:25
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Yes, overwhelmingly so! For instance, here is a sampling of evidence for God that Russell's teapot does not have:

  1. Evident design in creation. Whenever we see design, we expect a designer behind it; and even popular evolutionists like Richard Dawkins admits that nature has a very strong appearance of design. He even says it's reasonable for people to initially think that.
  2. Cause and effect. Everything that begins to exist has a cause. There is solid scientific and philosophical evidence that the universe began to exist. Variations of this argument include the First Mover argument by Thomas Aquinas and the Kalam Cosmological argument primarily advocated these days by Christian philosopher William Craig. The Cause adequate to its existence must be transcendent (outside the universe, since it can't cause itself); timeless, spaceless, immaterial, and enormously powerful. That sounds a lot like God! As Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God".
  3. Tendency to decay. Things tend to wind down over time; paint tends to fade, buildings left to themselves fall apart and become overgrown with weeds, etc. As Jesus said, down here "moth and rust doth corrupt." Our DNA itself is also winding down with deleterious mutational load faster than natural selection could theoretically keep up in eliminating the bad mutations, let alone having enough power left over to drive brand new information. There is a book written by Dr. John Sanford called Genetic Entropy & The Mystery of the Human Genome which goes into great detail. It is a very powerful and detailed argument which also matches our intuition. This is evidence that Someone "wound up" the universe and nature to begin with.
  4. Sociological evidence. As @JoWehler pointed out, there is also immense evidence for the existence of belief in God. While that does not necessarily prove it to be true of course, it certainly places it on a far more serious plane of discussion than a teapot that no one actually believes in--not even Russell himself! :)
  5. Resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is excellent evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. J Warner Wallace has written a book Cold-Case Christianity: A Homocide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels; and he concludes that the witness accounts have the marks of authenticity and reliability. Lee Strobel has written a book called The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus. He actually became a Christian because of his investigation into the resurrection.
  6. Martyrs. Related to #4, but stronger, a great many people have been willing to suffer horribly and die for their faith in God, and have not recanted, even when it would save their lives and comfort. I was reading about Christians behind the Iron Curtain, and once they declared a Christian to be insane merely because he would not recant his faith in God for pragmatic reasons; they said anyone with sense would at least recant rather than suffer. This demonstrates how fundamental and serious their belief in God was, and it must be taken seriously. Russell's teapot has no such claim.

Someone once told me that anything I could say about God, he could say about a magic grasshopper that lives in his house. He was trying to make a point similar to Russell. Well, it's simply not true. Belief in things like this grasshopper or Russell's teapot are at best a joke, with no evidence. But belief in God is faith in "the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1).

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  • Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on Philosophy Meta, or in Philosophy Chat. Comments continuing discussion may be removed.
    – Philip Klöcking
    Commented Sep 5 at 5:02
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    None of this is evidence. Arguments (1), (2) and (3) can be immediately used to argue against the existence of a Christian god. (4) There is evidence for the existence of belief in a "flat earth". That doesn't put it on any serious plane of discussion at all. (5) evidence based on generations of hearsay? (6) No it must not be taken seriously. Commented Sep 5 at 13:03
  • @infinitezero I'd actually argue that the flat earth claim would need to be taken (slightly) more seriously than the teapot, which no one believes. But it's easy to disprove (e.g., a photo from space from an honest astronaut). And few believe it, and likely not on pain of death, so the comparison has some other limitations. Commented Sep 5 at 13:30
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    @PeterRankin People believe in cults to the extent that they are willing to die for them. That isnt evidence that the cult is on to something true. It's typically just showcasing their ability to manipilate others.
    – JMac
    Commented Sep 5 at 13:46
  • @JMac It doesn't mean the cult is true of course, but I do think it places the claim on a more serious level, and requiring more serious counterarguments (e.g., your manipulation argument, which is good) than a teapot that no one believes in. Commented Sep 5 at 14:01
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The philosophical response to this question is it depends on what you mean by evidence within your theory of evidentialism. An atheist will point to the fact there is no strong empirical evidence for gods and the loud agnosticism or denial of science towards the supernatural. A believer will fall back to fideism or attempt to bend science to their will by taking pseudoscientific positions and placing heavy emphasis on testimony (of a holy book, personal experience, and so on). Both sides will then engage in epistemological and metaepistemological argumentation both convinced of their belief. This debate has been going on at least since the theologi and physiki of the pre-Socratics more than 2,500 years ago, long before the Abrahamic traditions even existed.

Thus, the answers you will see here fall into three categories: yes, maybe, and no which are roughly theism, agnosticism, and atheism. Deciding what your philosophy is has to come first if you don't have a preference, and such a thing is called metaphilosophical discourse. When you get older, and you've seen the thousands of years of arguments spinning in circles, you tend to become a quietist and accept that people who want to believe in the supernatural experience the supernatural and people who do not or cannot don't. In the philosophy of science, such a phenomenon is understood as theory-ladenness.

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    It is not true that atheists must deny there is any evidence for a God. Instead, the criteria for reasoned atheism is that the preponderance of evidence, which may be both supporting and contrary, is such that disbelief in Gods is more reasonable than any other option. Likewise, the uncertain need not deny evidence, but instead deny that there is sufficient evidence in either direction to currently reach a conclusion. Agnosticism holds that God claims are incoherent or unsupportable in principle, and should be distinguished from uncertainty.
    – Dcleve
    Commented Sep 5 at 18:07
  • @Dcleve An excellent refinement, and one with which I find no reason to dispute.
    – J D
    Commented Sep 5 at 21:18
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Yes, there is more evidence

Your question is a loaded one, and I'm taking the strict interpretation of what you've written.

Russell's Teapot is an analogy that's constructed to have zero evidence in favor of it. There must be literally zero evidence for its existence, because if there were even the slightest evidence for it, Russell would modify the analogy such that there's no longer any evidence. Put another way, it means if there were any evidence, that God exists, then the answer to your question is "yes" (and this is independent of how strong the evidence is).

And there clearly is some evidence that God exists. I'll just quote an example that you can surely believe. If I were to pray to God, beseeching Him/Her/It that the next time I flip a coin, it will come up 'Heads', and it indeed comes up 'Heads', then it's evidence that God exists. It's not strong evidence by any means, but it's still something. A more sophisticated example is the Miracle of the Sun.

Now the above of course doesn't prove God exists. You could certainly press a credible argument that God doesn't exist (Wiki for example has a long section with skeptical explanations for the Miracle of the Sun). But you've only asked for evidence, not proof. If you agree that it is something, then the answer to your question is "yes". In the same way questions such as "which God are you referring to?" misses the point; as long as there is some evidence for any God, the answer to your question is "yes".

In that sense, the reason the answer to your question is "yes" is not so much because there is strong evidence that God exists, but rather that blanket claims are generally wrong.

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    By the same logic, if I "pray" for heads and tails comes up, it's a tiny evidence that god doesn't exist. Now the entire population does this experiment, half come up tails, half come up heads, in total that is 0 evidence. This is a cherry-picking fallacy and it doesn't hold any scientific-standard of proof. Commented Sep 6 at 6:53
  • The "miracle of the sun" is no evidence either no matter what believers claim. Hundreds/thousands of years ago, people believed thunderstorms, volcanic eruptions, earth quakes were signs that their gods were angry because they didn't know the scientific explanation for them. God has - among other things - always been a placeholder to explain the unknown. Commented Sep 6 at 6:54
  • @infinitezero if I "pray" for heads and tails comes up, it's a tiny evidence that god doesn't exist Not quite, since it could mean God decided not to intervene. I highly doubt there's a way to prove God exists scientifically, unless such an entity decided to manifest explicitly.
    – Allure
    Commented Sep 6 at 6:55
  • you have to set the interpretation of the result before the outcome. You're current interpretation is: "If the coin matches my prediction, god did it. Otherwise we can't say". This experiment doesn't tell us anything. Other choices are: "Otherwise: God doesn't exist." This will result in my paragraph above. "Otherwise: God decided to not intervene" this renders the entire experiment useless, because it is already assumed that god exists beforehand. Commented Sep 6 at 7:00
  • @infinitezero I don't see the relevance, since as long as it's >0 that suffices.
    – Allure
    Commented Sep 6 at 7:21
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You can't objectively evaluate the strength of the evidence for any proposition unless you can objectively justify how likely the evidence is if the proposition is true, i.e. P(E|G). See my answer to a related question here.

In the case of the existence of God, it is fairly obvious we are not going to be able to objectively justify the nature of God, i.e. P(E|G), so we can only have subjective evaluations of whether the evidence for Russell's teapot (or equivalently Elon's Tesla Roadster ;o) outweighs that for the existence of God.

In practice, people seem to find it very difficult to separate P(E|G) from their prior belief in the existence of God, P(G), so any use of Bayes rule for rational inference will be invalidated by their leakage of their prior into the likelihood. Bayes gives us a means for rational inference, but only if we use it correctly.

Sadly these discussions just tend to end up in reinforcement of personal/group identity rather than truth-seeking. Any attempt to "prove" the existence or non-existence of God seems wrong-headed to me (at best they tend to be superficial and biased). We can have useful discussions about evidence though and why our subjective beliefs are the way they are.

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All questions about whether or not God exists, and what evidence there may or may not be for God's existence, hinge on what is meant by the word "God", and what is meant by the word "exists".

If by "existence" in proposition "God exists", one means "physical existence", like a teapot, then it would be appropriate to seek physical evidence for God, just as we would seek physical evidence for a teapot.

But there are things that one may, or may not, take as "existing" that don't have the same physical existence as a teapot. For example a law. In the united states there are laws against stealing. Now, in some sense, there is physical evidence that these laws exist. There are physical books the purport to say what the laws are. But when we see such a book, are we actually seeing "the law"? Some might say yes, but others might say, no. They might say that the law is not a physical thing, which cannot be seen. What you see is only a book. In another society there may be laws which are not recorded in books, yet are widely known in that society.

I could expand upon how things we debate are often fruitless because we use common words in the debate, but give those words different meanings. But as I personally choose to use the word "God", and "exist", the notion that one could find evidence either for the proposition "God exists" or for its negation, doesn't make sense.

Of course, if one uses the terms "God" and "exists" in such a way that the proposition "God exists" is something that may be confirmed or disconfirmed with evidence, then one may find, or fail to find such evidence. Unfortunately, that has no effect on me. There is no point in trying to convince me that a materially existing God does not exist. I already agree. That may be a confession of atheist in the eyes of some. If that seems like a victory in debate to an atheist, then may the atheist enjoy their victory. I will continue to believe that "God exists" is a true proposition, when the words "God" and "exists" are assigned meanings that accord with those used by a variety of philosophers and theologians.

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    The law analogy seems like a bad one to me. The written words of the law are part of the physical/material evidence that it exists. More importantly though, the physical/material consequences of laws can be shown, and directly tied to said laws. This is how we can show they exist without being able to physically produce a law that you can touch and feel. You touch and feel the consequences of a law and that is the evidence that such a law is real and exists, in some sense.
    – JMac
    Commented Sep 5 at 14:47
  • @JMac "But there are things that one may, or may not, take as "existing" that don't have the same physical existence as a teapot. For example a law." Unless you are claiming that a law has the same sort of physical existence as a teapot, my claim, as quoted, stands. Commented Sep 5 at 17:25
  • MathKeepsMeBusy Your are missing @JMac's point. What they are saying is that a law offers a predictive model that can be studied empirically, especially if the law is expressed in the language of mathematics (e.g., see General Relativity or Quantum Mechanics). If God is analogous to laws in this respect, then what things does God predict that we can study empirically?
    – user77058
    Commented Sep 5 at 20:10
  • @MathKeepsMeBusy No, I'm saying that the type of existence that the law has still manifests physically. You then extend that analogy to god, without pointing to physical manifestations of its existence, so they arent really comparable. We say a law exists because it has material effects that we can directly connect to that law. "God" and "exists" do have meaning, and you havent explained what "existence" of god would even be here, besides the law analogy which suggests there are physical ways to confirm it exists.
    – JMac
    Commented Sep 5 at 20:13
  • @JMac JMac:"I'm saying that the type of existence that the law has still manifests physically." You are then agreeing with me, when I say "in some sense, there is physical evidence that these laws exist." JMac: "You then extend that analogy to god". I wasn't attempting to make an analogy. I was attempting to make give an example of how language is ambiguous. If we argue, each of us using the word "exist" to mean different things, our argument will be fruitless. Commented Sep 5 at 22:33
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Every person claiming that God exists constitutes evidence for his existence. Since there are more people claiming so than for Russell's teapot, or, say, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, by this alone there is "more" evidence, at least quantitatively.

Whether such evidence is qualitatively greater than for other entities, or whether such evidence is actually "good", is another question. There is no objective scale for this, but I suspect most of this evidence would not stand in court as solid direct evidence for anything – not that many people would claim to have seen, heard, or otherwise perceived God in any direct way. However, there are still some who would claim to have met God in person, which is at least plausible, unlike the Russell's teapot, which by definition orbits the Sun and cannot be seen from Earth. There could be no direct evidence for the existence (or non-existence) of Russell's teapot, whereas God at least admits some direct evidence. Note, however, that this is only due to the definition of Russell's teapot and does not hold for other entities – even the Flying Spaghetti Monster for example enjoys more evidence since it is not so restricted by its definition.

The last type of evidence is one that derives the existence logically. So far, I have seen none of this kind for either entity – indeed Russell's teapot was created on the basis of the absence of such evidence, and arguments for God's existence are either logically flawed, or derived from already unproven statements (to illustrate a few: not everything needs a creator, causality does not exist before the beginning of time, our simulations tend to mimic nature without any external interference, and any supernatural phenomena prove magic or aliens equally well as they do God).

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