Is the "me" an idea shaped by past experiences and memory, or is it something greater and unchanging.. What is the essence of a "person"?
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Why would a mental construct imply that it isn’t real? Are your thoughts and feelings not real?– SyedCommented Nov 5 at 2:29
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My interpretation of real here is how you'd view imagination as an opposite of reality, ofcourse, what you consider to be real or not is up to you– ScopeCommented Nov 5 at 2:36
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do you mean how i define myself? obviously this is subject to change. i cannot always identify as a student, parent, etc.. your question needs clarification, and i think you are being deliberately (rhetorically) opaque– user83551Commented Nov 5 at 2:36
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Its a complex question, I'm asking when you say "I am", who is it you are referring to– ScopeCommented Nov 5 at 2:38
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2See Personal Identity– Mauro ALLEGRANZACommented Nov 5 at 9:04
5 Answers
There are several questions in your post. Identity and essence are broad terms. They are not uniquely defined in a standard way.
- In general, when waking up in the morning each person experiences themselves as the same person as yesterday evening. That’s the self-experience of identity and unity. It is a continuous phenomenon, shaped by past biographic experience and interpretation.
- Self-experience is conceptualized by neuroscience as the mental process of a self-model, embedded into a world-model. Hence you may call the self-model a mental construct. Neuroscience attempts to find out the neural correlate of these two models.
- During phases of mental disorder the self-model and the world-model may break down or get mixed up. Psychology discriminates and classifies different forms of mental disorder.
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+1 But ... (1) Are changes in personality (and how we "experience ourselves") always imperceptible? (2) Do we actually have sth like an "experience of ourselves"? We have memories and perceptions; we somehow accept those memories as "ours", but is that an "experience"? I'm a peculiar person with peculiar memories, but I don't really "experience myself" -- i.e. I'm not sure what that would mean. I certainly cannot "see" or "feel" myself, just like I can see things or feel pain in my toe or so. Commented Nov 6 at 15:22
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1@mudskipper Our whole world-model is centered around our self-model. The perspective is always directed from "me" in the center to the world outside. - Little children when doing their first exploration learn to distinguish between: What is my body and what is not. They learn to distinguish between “me” and “not me”. - The attribute of “myness” is a characteristic property of all content in the self-model. – Changes of my personality are subtle but not imperceptible. Some day in life one may say: “I feel I am no longer the person I was before”. Commented Nov 6 at 15:44
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@JoWheler - Indeed - but this "myness" is an extremely tricky concept - As shown in experiments where after a very few simple steps people start feeling/perceiving things in 'their' body which actually do not occur in their body. As in the phantom hand experiment: scientificamerican.com/article/the-phantom-hand-2008-05 Commented Nov 6 at 16:00
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@mudskipper Our brain and the algorithms underlying our mental processes developed and adapted in hundred thousands of years of human species’ biological evolution. In general, the algorithms are well-adapted to our everyday life. But they are not infallible and can be fooled by smart experimentators. No wonder. Commented Nov 6 at 16:10
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1@mudskipper - Consider this joke. Can you play the piano? I don't know. I never tried! Commented Nov 6 at 16:44
There are at least two or three very distinct clusters of questions here which need to be disentangled:
- What makes a particular person that kind of person? Here "that kind" refers to some common way we may have of talking about individual persons (or even individual animals), such as "a curious person", "a narcissist", "a gullible person easily conned by charismatic politicians", "someone who volunteers for a suicide mission", "someone who becomes a Buddhist monk".
- What (if anything) constitutes personhood? More in particular, what constitutues the sense of "self" that persons have? What are the essential components of that "self"? Can we say that this "self" developed or should we say it 'sprang into being' at some point (or perhaps that it's timeless)?
- What (if anything) constitues the sense of unity that a conscious, normal person has when they use the word "I" and speak of "my" experiences, "my" beliefs, "my" body? Is this unity the same as continuity (across time) of "me being me"?
If I bend question (1) towards myself, then it becomes "What made me me (in the sense of the type of person I am)?" This is a question as to any decisions I may have made in the past ("what were you reasons for starting to study philosophy? taking up carpentry?"), and to the general conditions that allowed me (or constrained me, or even caused me) to become like a particular type (or stereotype, if you will). If there is any explanation, it will either be part of general genetics ("the type of person that has brown eyes" or "a person with a melancholic temperament") or part of my history (which is part of the history of society). In other words, I don't think there is any mystery here -- this is generally accepted, and not directly relevant philosophically. History (perhaps autobiography) and psychological development tell the story here.
Question (2) is a general question about the concept of "being a person" or "having a (sense of) self".
In the most general sense, "a sense of self" does not require personhood. The immune system will fight anything that is not-self on its level. Cats and dogs most definitely have a "sense of self", but are not persons. But when we talk about "personal self" our ideas about what may be essential may be largely shaped by the culture and society in which we have grown up. For instance, we generally take it as obvious that individuals (rather than groups) are morally responsible for their actions. (That is, those individuals who we recognize as adult, human persons.) This goes together with the idea that individual persons have certain basic moral rights. Those ideas are -- at least to me -- mostly self-evident intuitions -- and they are part of what constitutes a "human person". However, I suspect that the way people in early cultures (early Greek or early Chinese culture for instance) saw "personhood" may have been quite different. (Also, the strongly, almost pathologically individualist attitude that is pushed in certain societies, e.g. in the US, I think, further colors those ideas, even though this may be imperceptible to some people, and imperceptible when different parties express those ideas. It may become visible however, in disputes about concrete cases.)
As to (3) - I don't know if we have more than metaphors to hold on to (for now). Personally, I like to think of "my" continuity as similar to the continuity of a rope, strung together from different shorter fibers, each clinging to and entangled with their locally surrounding fibers, but without one "essential" fiber running from beginning (my birth) to the end (now). (This metaphor comes from Derek Parfit's Reasons and Persons.) My memories are not things that I possess and that I can look at as something 'external' to me -- they are me. The "me" is bound up in them -- even though I know that false memories are possible and that some of mine are dubious (at least incomplete, sketchy, smoothed out as it were).
Also, "my body", the unity of "me" and "my body" is rather difficult to clearly conceptualize. It turns out to be extremely simple to give someone the illusionary apperception of being touched, being stroked with a feather over one's hand. See for instance The Phantom Hand experiment. In this experiment, one hand of the subject is hidden behind a towel or screen and a rubber replica of the hand is located at the place where the hand would normally be (so the link between underarm and hand is hidden from view by a towel). The subject is fully aware of all this. The experimenter than starts stroking the rubber hand with a small object, a pencil or feather. After a very short while, the subject will start having the immediate "spooky" feeling that their actual hand is being stroked. As conclusion the authors write:
Consider what these illusions imply. All of us go through life making certain assumptions about our existence. “My name has always been Joe,” someone might think. “I was born in San Diego,” and so on. All such beliefs can be called into question at one time or another for various reasons. But one premise that seems to be beyond question is that you are anchored in your body. Yet given a few seconds of the right kind of stimulation, even this axiomatic foundation of your being is temporarily forsaken, as the table next to you seems to become part of you. As Shakespeare aptly put it, we are truly “such stuff as dreams are made on.”
OP: “What is the essence of a "person"?”
For Heidegger the essence of a person is their existence.
Being & Time ¶ 9. The Theme of the Analytic of Dasein
We are ourselves the entities to be analysed. …
I . The 'essence' ["Wesen"] of this entity lies in its "to be" [Zu-sein] . Its Being-what-it-is [Was-sein] (essentia) must, so far as we can speak of it at all, be conceived in terms of its Being (existentia). …
The essence of Dasein lies in its existence. …
In this case existence precedes essence. This is a unique case because usually—with 'things' objectively beheld—essence precedes existence, in that the notion of the thing precedes its perception or actualisation.
Sartre popularised the phrase, and here Wikipedia there is some critical vagueness regarding whether it applies to people (as Dasein) or to things objectively present-at-hand (in disregard to Dasein).
The proposition that existence precedes essence (French: l'existence précède l'essence) is a central claim of existentialism, which reverses the traditional philosophical view that the essence (the nature) of a thing is more fundamental and immutable than its existence (the mere fact of its being).
Note 7 remarks
Sartre, in Being and Nothingness (1943), credits a slightly longer version of the claim to Heidegger.
As regards the essence and existence of things "present-at-hand" [vorhanden] (in Heidegger's parlance) there is a post here:
Surely in order for something to be “actual” and to be able to be “actual,” it must first be possible.
In which case, ie. for 'things', essence precedes existence.
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What about other primates? Is it so that for them their "being there" is also not a simple "being-present-at-hand" ("being-found-as-given-to")? It seems to me that Heidegger is just postulating that self-awareness or self-aware experience is something uniquely human - which seems kind of hard to believe. Commented Nov 7 at 19:37
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+1 Essence and existence is at the heart of formula or instance, or rather nominalism or realism. Are we who we think we are, our Being, or are we determined by our physical being?– J DCommented Nov 7 at 20:13
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@mudskipper You might want to allow that Being is more than self-awareness, but it's enriched by the language of self-description. Can any Ape count themselves a king of infinite space or postulate as to the insufficiency of such ambitions in the face of bad dreams? Certainly not without a context-sensitive grammar?– J DCommented Nov 7 at 20:17
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@mudskipper For his analysis of Being, Heidegger considers a being which happens to be human. There is some specificity about being able to understand historically, have language, writing etc. characteristic of human being, but Dasein just an exemplar to get a handle on Being itself. Commented Nov 7 at 21:41
The idea of "me" is easily correlated with the ego, whereas another form of self is the "I". The "I" can be understood as the Ego, pronounced Eigo, with reverence to Greek and even initial tongue. Taking this into account, identity associated with ego could be faux, or at the very least improper. If improper, then the experiences of the me could be nothing but fiction. In regard to memory, we do not suggest that "me recall", rather it is "I recall". Thusly, proper recollection is in regard to Eigo, not ego. Past experience as well is best understood in regard to "I", especially if we are to suggest that "I did this" or "I did that". "Me did that" or "Me did this" is not necessarily linguistically proper. In reference to "I know what happened to me" or "I know what happened to I", we see that the former is referencing two selves, whereas the latter is referencing oneself. This is when you take into account the understanding that the ego is the me, whereas the Eigo is the I. Thusly, any recollection of events pertaining to two selves for one individual, is potentially dissociating from the actual experience itself. In fact, oneself can indeed accumulate many experiences through a vast majority of "selves". This is best understood through past lives and even the present life.
Thusly, the essence of an individual is best understood via the "I", whereas the "me" is lower or not necessary. Regardless, the "me" can indeed be exercised via the "I" as a fictitious expression. This fictitious expression obviously requires the "I" to be understood prior. This prior understanding is necessary to ensure that the "me" does not retain full control.
Regardless, I would argue that the "I" is the greater self, whereas the "me" is the lesser self. Thusly, one must attend to the "I" in order to understand the self, which is not necessarily requiring of identity.
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Sigmund Freud describes the biological efforts of the ego, the incorporation of memories into the unconscious ego, and the transformation of the ego via interactions between internal biological drives and the external world. This abstracts away from the concept of self but maps the self to the product of a natural and social process. In Questions to a Zen Master the roshi responds to a question as follows: A strong ego is necessary! I am not others! Others are not myself! But it is not necessary to have an egotistical ego! Freud says the ego (I) takes itself as an object (me). Seems right. Commented Nov 6 at 16:53
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A strong I is necessary, but a strong me could be nothing but fictitious. If fictitious, then the self would be faux, and an individual may be privy to "losing themselves." Commented Nov 7 at 0:27
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I knew a girl when she was three years old. She would see the adults doing things around the house, try to help, and say, "Me do it! Me do it!" She is approaching thirty and still expresses a strong will with her can-do and will-do attitude! But she has learned to use the word "me" according to idiomatic custom. Anyway, Me thinks the word "me" is not necessarily limited to one's own personal definition. Commented Nov 7 at 0:40
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Right, well... if we understand that definitions are not necessarily personal, then we see that "Me do it" can be cute, however, I do it or I did it is stronger. Commented Nov 7 at 4:43
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Channeling my junior high school English lessons on parts of speech: subjects, objects, and pronouns. According to Google AI Overview: “I,” “he,” “she,” “we,” “they,” and “who” are all personal pronouns that act as subjects in a sentence. "Me," "him," "her," "us," "them," and "whom" are all objective pronouns, which are used when a pronoun receives an action, a direct object, or follows a preposition. For example, in the sentence "Give the chocolate to me, please," "me" is an objective pronoun that receives the action. Folk psychology and speech patterns map I/me to subject/object of action. Commented Nov 7 at 21:33
Words like "me" "self" "identity" "person" etc. look to me like conventional designators, words for things without essences. I'm not just referring to the arbitrary nature of those signifiers, but how everything is moving/changing and while there is continuity between the person that started this answer and whoever hits submit, that reduces to how the former brought about the latter, rather than anything metaphysical.