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If laws merely describe things in the world, then it seems that there is no reason for a particular object to behave according to a particular law the next moment.

If laws govern/order/command reality in some way or if there is something inherent to an object (lets call it a “power”) that governs how the object behaves according to a law, we now have an explanation for why an object continues to move or behave according to a certain pattern.

Does this mean that if laws or these lawlike causal powers are actually doing things or causing things rather than being merely descriptive, there is an explanatory advantage to the former?

EDIT: It seems that most people are misunderstanding what I mean here by laws of nature, even though the philosophical literature makes it clear as to what they mean. I am not referring to our human attempts to understanding these laws, but whatever the fundamental laws of nature actually are, irrespective of our knowledge. Some philosophers think that these fundamental laws, whether we know them or not, govern the universe. Others think that even if we could fully describe all the laws in the universe, they don’t actually govern anything. The question is if the former idea has greater explanatory power than the latter.

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You are confusing how things are with how we think about them. Nature does not behave as it does because we have identified various so-called laws. Yes there are some underlying factors at play that cause a particular object to continue to appear to obey the laws we have identified, but most of the time we define laws that are purely descriptive, and do not address the cause of the behaviour described. Take Hooke's law, which describes the relationship between an applied force and the change in length of a spring- springs don't behave as they do because of Hooke's law, and the actual factors at play are vastly more complicated. Or take Fleming's left hand rule- wires carrying currents do not react to magnetic fields in a certain way because some Victorian engineer specified they must take note of the orientation of his digits.

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    You are completely missing my point. I am saying there are factors that govern the way the Universe works, and if you like you can think of them as laws. However, they are not to be confused with our attempts at describing how the Universe works, which is what we also call laws. The two are fundamentally different but you are confusing them. Commented yesterday
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    You seem to be arguing with people at cross purposes. Of course there are factors that determine how the universe works. Let's call them fundamental laws, or flaws. Then there are our attempts at explaining how the universe works, which we call laws. Can't you see the difference between flaws and laws? Laws are inaccurate and subject to change as our understanding improves, while the flaws remain what they are. Flaws were there before humans came along, while laws are invented by humans... Commented yesterday
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    ...we used to talk about Newton's law of gravity, and now we talk about curved 4-d spacetime, and I'm guessing that some day we will have some other explanation that supersedes both of them. Commented yesterday
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    @Syed Correct, the phrase as used in philosophy and by philosophers means something different than the phrase as used in physics and by physicists. When physicists talk about "laws of physics" or "laws of nature", they're talking about the models developed from experimentation and nothing beyond that.
    – Idran
    Commented yesterday
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    @Syed "flaws", as ProfShushing has defined them, have no explanatory power, because they are not explanations, they are facts that we attempt to explain (sometimes well and sometimes poorly). Contrast the statement "All men are mortal" vs the fact that all men are mortal. One is an English phrase, and one is an aspect of the universe that we inhabit. These two things are related, in that one describes the other - the "law" "all men are mortal" describes the apparent "flaw". So, the "law" is an explanation, and the "flaw" is what it attempts to explain.
    – Him
    Commented yesterday
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Well, yes of course. If nature has to follow the "laws of nature" that we write down, we could perfectly predict it. By definition.

That doesn’t change that what we call "laws of nature" are models based on observations and thus descriptive. The "laws of nature" are in textbooks because that is where we put our descriptions from observations. Now, there might be some truly fundamental rules that actually govern nature, but all we can do is observe and try to describe them.

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Is there greater explanatory power in laws governing things rather than being descriptive?

Of course, and the body of the question seems to recognize this. The latter kind of law provides for prediction, but no real explanation. The former provides explanation, albeit a somewhat unsatisfactory one, to wit: it is a characteristic of the universe, as it is today, that things behave according to such-and-such law. Of course, that does beg the metaphysical question of why the universe has that characteristic.

The question is moot, however, because we have no tools for discovering such governing natural laws. Our best tools and methods for exploring how the natural world works -- scientific ones -- are fundamentally built for and around interpreting our observations, thus they produce descriptive principles.

Scientists do generally work under the assumption that the perceived regularities of our universe are indeed grounded in fundamental natural characteristics. They do generally suppose that the scientific method is effective for discovering better and better approximations to those underlying natural laws. That seems to have been working well for centuries. But scientific "laws" are a predictive codification of observations, not to be confused with the true underlying characteristics of the natural universe. If ever we do come up with a scientific law that happens to exactly match a natural law, we have no way to recognize that we have done so.

Sometimes, a scientist will express that such and such scientific law / principle explains a given observation. This is pretty common, in fact. But such a claim should be taken as code for the observation being consistent with said law / principle, or else the claim should be taken as contingent on the law / principle being a close enough approximation to a true characteristic of the natural universe, or both. And that's ok.

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  • "natural characteristics" are not laws. Ultimately, there can't be anything explaining why things are the way they are. The sooner we acknowledge that, the better. The Explanation Game never runs out of levels, but eventually, we run out of time and quarters. Game Over
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
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If there are natural laws causing the universe to behave regularly, then those laws would explain why the universe behaves regularly. However, this would leave unexplained why there are natural laws in the first place. One option is to postulate these laws as brute facts. Alternatively, theists might argue that God designed the laws, but in that case, God would be the brute fact, and so on.

If there are no natural laws causing the universe to behave regularly, then the scientific or physical laws we typically refer to are simply efficient descriptions developed by humans to describe the apparent regularity of the universe. In this case, there would be nothing inherently forcing the universe to behave regularly in the first place. The fact that the universe seems to behave regularly would itself be a brute fact. Perhaps the universe will stop behaving regularly tomorrow, and if so, that too would be a brute fact. (See also: If the laws of nature are not metaphysically fundamental, what alternative explanations could account for the regularities observed in nature?)

Which hypothesis has more explanatory power? They all seem to predict essentially the same outcomes. If the universe continues to behave regularly, there is no way to determine which hypothesis is correct. However, if "miracles" are real, that might falsify the "laws of nature as fundamental" hypothesis and align with either God is real or laws are mere descriptions, and the universe can do whatever it wants.

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  • How do they have the same explanatory power? The hypothesis that laws are merely human constructed descriptions of reality tells me nothing about where the ball will bounce when I drop it. The hypothesis that laws govern the universe does.
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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    @Syed They have the same explanatory power if you just assume that the happy coincidence of regularity will still hold by happy coincidence. If you act as if the happy coincidence will still hold, they are indistinguishable.
    – user80226
    Commented yesterday
  • why assume that the happy coincidence will still hold and how is this an explanation?
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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    there may be no explanation for the laws of nature, but the explanation for why they remain unbreakable may be that they are governing entities rather than descriptive
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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    @Syed With God we have an explanation for the laws of nature (they are explained by God), and through the laws of nature be can predict things. The chain of explanation would be God -> laws -> predictions. Now, miracles would be by definition not predictable by laws, predicting a miracle would be impossible without revelation actually. You will not find an explanation of the form God -> laws -> miracles. Instead, miracles would be explained like this: God -> miracles.
    – user80226
    Commented yesterday
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Human derived "laws" of nature are codified descriptions of what nature has been seen to do. They help guide human understanding of nature.

Nature ignores our attempts to understand it and does what it darned well pleases. However, it is consistent enough that we can make reasonable predictions. A dropped rock will fall, and its fall can be described and predicted. If we find a case where our predictions don't work we change the model so they do.

Does nature have to be reasonably consistent with itself? Gods only know, but in our experience it has been, and if it wasn't it's unclear this reality could exist.

Addendum:

Stepping back for a moment: I think that what you have done is reintroduced the idea of a set of ideal abstractions that nature tries to follow, with more general laws replacing ideal geometric solids so more complexity is allowed.

Unfortunately, as has been true since the Greek philosophers got us started playing this game, the problem is that there seem to be no implications we can test that would distinguish between the two models. The laws-first formulation provides no help in discovering new laws or new details of the current laws. It doesn't seem to make any predictions that differ from the assumption that physicality is wholly physical. I see no way to prove it or refute it.

That may be my own limited vision. If you really want to pursue this, go for it. As far as I can tell it is as valid as most philosophy; it's consistent, it just isn't useful. Prove otherwise and you have something publishable, but until then I will pass. The model we have works: restating it this way seems to me to add questions without resolving any.

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  • Yes so what explains the consistency of the laws and why many of them remain unbroken tomorrow if laws are just descriptions?
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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    You're focusing on the wrong thing. What you want to know, apparently, is why the fundamental forces of nature don't change, or at least didn't change enough on our time scale for us to see those changes. I think the only answer is that this happens to be the universe we are living in.
    – keshlam
    Commented yesterday
  • the question is if positing that mathematical laws are inherent to nature explains why they don’t change, as opposed to them being just descriptions. So no, technically you’re still talking about the wrong thing
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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    I'm talking about the right thing, but answering "no". You are asking whether there are abstractions behind reality. I don't think so, and I can't imagine how to test the idea or what difference it would make.
    – keshlam
    Commented yesterday
  • your answer isn’t clear with respect to that. You stated that we can make predictions and you also stated, that so far nature hasn’t broken our models, but also simultaneously now seem to be saying that we have no way of knowing if the models actually correspond to nature inherently. You provided no reason for thinking this. Why aren’t the consistent predictions seen as evidence for them being explanatory? @keshlam
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
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  1. Laws of nature explain the phenomena we observe in nature. Most explanatory power is due to the fact that there are laws at all.

  2. Originally humans considered the laws of nature to be both, prescriptive and descriptive. Examples are in India the concept of “dharma” and in Europe Anaximander’s philosophy of nature.

    Experience shows that social laws can be broken while laws of nature hold without exception – otherwise research continues until improved laws hold without these exceptions.

  3. The current view: Laws of nature describe a behaviour, they explain. While social laws demand a certain conduct, they prescribe.

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The previous answers appear to be plagued with semantic debates in the comments. However I'll try to be clear and use words in a way that everyone can agree with. My apologies if I state the obvious but that is only to establish a foundation.

A scientist observes a phenomenon. The scientist develops a hypothesis H that the observed variables appear to closely fit the equation x=(a^3)/b for some variables x, a and b. He then makes some predictions using this hypothesis and the universe's behaviour seems to agree with the predictions. His hypothesis and any theories based on it are merely a description.

Some time elapses. Perhaps a day, or perhaps five hundred years. We might even develop some underlying hypotheses out of which H emerges as an artifact.

Tomorrow, our certainty that the universe will agree with H is still not 1. That is, we are confident that information cannot travel faster than light (for example, unrelated to the above equation), but we can only be 99.999999999999...% sure.

Now, onto semantics. In the comments on another answer, a distinction between "laws" and "descriptions" was made. But somewhat confusingly, the word "law" is also used to mean "description":

Scientific laws or laws of science are statements, based on repeated experiments or observations, that describe or predict a range of natural phenomena. (ref)

The universe's behaviour follows a set of unknowable laws. We can only make descriptions of those laws. It is plausible that our descriptions reach a 1 to 1 correspondence with the laws, but we would never be 100% sure that they have.

We cannot achieve greater explanatory power by just assuming the descriptions are the laws.

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    “The universe's behaviour follows a set of unknowable laws” so then you agree. When I say laws of nature, I do not mean our mere attempts at understanding them, but the actual laws. I suppose I’ll edit my question further but that is what the entire debate in philosophy is about.
    – Syed
    Commented yesterday
  • @Syed It is not possible to know the EXACT "laws of nature" are, because we are within that system. We only have access to information that the "laws of nature" expose to us. If there are Hidden Variables that are constant across all of our measurements, but are inconsistent throughout the universe, we can't know about that variability. Consider the difference between Classical Newtonian Mechanics and Relativistic Mechanics. At low velocities they are near identical in their predictions, but at relativistic velocities Classical Mechanics completely breaks down.
    – abestrange
    Commented yesterday
  • I don't think the universe's behavior follows anything. If you want to end the semantic debate, you have to assert this point. Otherwise, you're just continuing to wave the red flag in front of the bull. Throw the damn flag away!
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
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    @ScottRowe I cannot assert a point that I subtly disagree with. :p I've not conjured a rabbit out of a hat yet. I haven't tried, because I have some expectation of the universe following its own time-worn traditions. No rabbit will appear (I claim, with 99.99...% certainty). Caveat: I think Syed and I have been using the word "law" incorrectly, or at least differently from how everyone else, including Wikipedia, uses it.
    – matt_rule
    Commented 9 hours ago
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Does this mean that if laws or these lawlike causal powers are actually doing things or causing things rather than being merely descriptive, there is an explanatory advantage to the former?

Only if we actually know what these laws are. If we don't know them, they can't be used as explanations, since explanations are by definition information that we impart to each other (someone has to do the explaining).

But we don't have any way of learning these laws directly. We create models and hypotheses, and then use experimentation and observation to confirm or refute them. But this process can never prove something to be an ultimate truth, only at best raise our confidence in the validity of the model.

So as much as we'd like to be able to explain why the universe works the way it does, all scientific knowledge is ultimately just descriptive. Scientific progress is basically just getting more and more detailed descriptions. Occam's razor also suggests that we should be able to find a simple model that encompasses all aspects of basic physics, a "theory of everything" (analogous to the way that electromagnetism unified electricity and magnetism). But even this would just be a model, we'd still have no explanation of why this is the fundamental law of the universe -- every discovery just raises new "why" questions.

As in many of my other answers, the analogy I like to make is a child's series of questions that start with "Why is the sky blue?" There's no true end possible, we're always left with "that's just the way it is."

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  • The ultimate answer in Philosophy is: "It just does, ok?" LOL
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
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    In one of my answers or comments, I put an end to the questions with "Let's get ice cream." Much more satisfying.
    – Barmar
    Commented 10 hours ago
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Explanatory power is the same, but governing laws are a more fruitful assumption

Conceptually, the way the universe works could be according to fixed principles so that if planets move in more or less elliptical fashion around stars then this is due to something inherent and unchanging in the stars and planets which causes this. This inherent principle could be called a law, and if we observe this behaviour and can describe it formally, and thereby predict the future positions of planets then we can say that this is because what we formulate is successfully modelling the underlying law.

Alternatively, we could conceive the universe as being unpredictable in essence but in practice it often does behave predictably. So that for example all our observations show that planets move elliptically around stars but there is no reason in principle that they couldn't travel in a figure-of-eight pattern tomorrow. We could call that "whim" and say that the behaviour of the universe is subject to whim, but most of the time, at least while we humans have been around, the whim is that planets follow elliptical paths and that therefore we can describe them mathematically and make useful predictions.

Either conception could apply to the universe as we observe it, and allow us to conduct scientific investigation. However it would seem that the first conception would allow us greater confidence that scientific investigation won't ultimately turn out to be a waste of time. It would mean that we can hope that as one theory or model replaces another, we close in on a true understanding asymptotically. We might never quite get there, but we will continue getting closer. If Einstein's 4D space replaced Newton's theory of gravitation, that is because it brought us closer to "truth", whatever that might turn out to be. However under the latter conception, the distance between our theories and "truth" might wax and wane over time and at some point we might have to ditch Einstein and go back to Newton again.

I can imagine that now that we have science that gives us useful technology, either conception would allow us to keep going ahead in this fashion at least as long as science appears to "work". But if in the late Middle Ages and Renaissance periods most of us had had the latter conception, that the universe is ultimately subject to whim, then science might have never got started. The "ology" in scientific disciplines is a cognate of the word "logic", and "onomy" is a cognate of "nomos" which means law. Without the confidence that there is something logical and lawlike to be discovered, it would not make sense to investigate the world closely.

By the way, if you have read the Three Body Problem you will know that one of the subplots was the invading aliens attempting to undermine science by making the universe seem to behave in impossible ways.

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  • Thank you. I think that these and other similar questions hinge on the first word of your answer: 'conceptually'. The whole discussion is about thoughts that we are having, and the universe doesn't really care. We could think one way, or another way, and both ways might 'work' somewhat. So there are two ways to end this inquiry: 1. Engineering - which way helps us get things done? 2. Preference - which way works better for human minds, or, we just plain like better. I can't see any further consideration of these ideas being useful. If people want to argue over preferences, that's silly.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
  • @ScottRowe the implications are not the same, and we could expect different things of the universe depending on which conception is true. If we think the universe really is lawless, we'll be expecting (and probably planning for) that one day when the sun rises and then goes straight back down again. Even if we never experience it, but someone claims they did, we'll have to allow for the possibility that they aren't lying or crazy. Everything would be uncertain and provisional, and life simply would be a lot more complicated.
    – Batperson
    Commented 4 hours ago
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    What I mean is, it would be more than a question of which we just like better. There would be costs, and it would be a practical issue of whether the costs are justified.
    – Batperson
    Commented 4 hours ago
  • I have this image of a big heavy pendulum swinging... Nothing makes it go a certain way, it just does, very reliably. The earth is big and heavy, so its rotation doesn't change much from day to day and so the track of the sun across the sky is predictable. But there's no thing making it do that, it simply does do that. Little tiny things are a lot faster and less predictable.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 51 secs ago
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You say:

I am not referring to our human attempts to understanding these laws, but whatever the fundamental laws of nature actually are, irrespective of our knowledge

This is a metaphysical presumption that these supposed "Laws" exist at all. What makes the scandal of induction scandalous, is the idea that there is no certainty such laws exist OR that once articulated, they are accurate and reliable. From WP:

the problem of induction can be framed in the following way: we cannot apply a conclusion about a particular set of observations to a more general set of observations. While deductive logic allows one to arrive at a conclusion with certainty, inductive logic can only provide a conclusion that is probably true.

From the article on scientific realism:

Scientific realism involves two basic positions... Second, it is the commitment that science will eventually produce theories very much like an ideal theory...

To say that laws exist independent of our best guess at laws is to presume they exist in the first place; and yet, for the secular scientist, laws are the product of human labors, not physical artifacts of the universe. Thus, they cannot exist independent of human language, observation, and inference. In such a world, how can they be assured to exist at all, then? Is there a law that there is always a better theory? (Maybe there is and I'm unaware of it.)

So, when you ask:

Is there greater explanatory power in laws governing things rather than being descriptive?

Laws are linguistic artifacts based in observation and reason that explain, predict, and describe. What a law is used for, be it description of behavior, a tool for predicting behavior, or an explanatory inference meant to relate to a potentially broader theory as in the relationship of scientific reduction, well, that's up to the agent using the law, and not something that inheres to the law itself, because whether language constitutes prediction, description, or explanation is a product of the broader context that the language finds itself employed within.

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  • Perhaps this is an answer for all the kinds of 'realism', especially ethics and morality? Just because we can imagine something doesn't mean it has to exist.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
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    @ScottRowe Exactly. The term is conceivability. Conceivability, on my view, is not an adequate basis for existence.
    – J D
    Commented 12 hours ago
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    "There are fewer things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in Philosophy."
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 12 hours ago
  • @ScottRowe Outstanding!
    – J D
    Commented 7 hours ago
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Is there greater explanatory power in laws governing things rather than being descriptive?

Yes. There are many objects that can only be described by behavior. The classic example is light.

I have no idea what light is but I can explain its behavior (wave or particle) under different conditions.

Black holes are another example. Our description of black holes is based on behavior that is predicted by theory (Gravitational Law).

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    So you're saying that there is greater explanatory power in governing, but all we have available is description? Do we keep looking for the governing explanations, or are descriptions good enough? Maybe governing explanations are better, but they don't exist?
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented 14 hours ago
  • @ScottRowe I can state: "This object is green" but it's not green. It preferential reflects green light. Understanding the governing behavior provides a better description. Commented 3 hours ago

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