Why are we not just a computer program? [closed]

Question

The problem of how the Universe came about is probably too hard. So let us consider the following instead. Over years from now some huge collection of code run on a powerful computer achieves what can be considered as consciousness. The computer becomes self aware, and has enough logic to decide that it probably is work of several iterations or perhaps lets say evolved. This may be wrong. He uses simple logic and concludes that he was not created. This is surely wrong. One of his fundamental questions again becomes, well if we created it, who created us. In theory, may be it came into being by itself but we created the first steps as in software and hardware. What does this mean for us? May be a programmer hard coded it to say we created it on some of the aware computers. I have personally written some AI and hard coded this into it so that I can brag to my friends. May be there is a long chain of creations like this. It might create a sandbox or a virtual machine in itself and create another in a cloud somewhere. May be with rules similar to its own or completely different. I assume it can achieve this by relaxing or straightening some fundamental math rules.

Could we be one of these? I mean we are obviously avoiding what first came, because may be time had no meaning, and that question is may be not even possible to pose correctly. So why could we not be one of these programs?

Answer 1

There's a whole bunch of related questions in there - too many for a concise answer. What you are asking is related to three main questions: 1. The question of strong AI, i.e. can there be a computer that does everything humans do? 2. The hard problem of consciousness: even if there is such a computer, would it be conscious like us? 3. The simulation problem: could the whole universe be a simulation?

These questions are hotly debated. Writers like Daniel Dennett, David Chalmers and Nick Bostrom come to mind and you might wish to research them further, but there are many writers who have contributed to these subjects.

Answer 2

"Is it possible" questions are quite often better phrased as "Is it impossible," because the emphasis captures the essence better. So if the question is "Is it impossible that we are just a computer program" the answer usually directly entwined with the question "Is it impossible for a computer to develop consciousness." Given that you start from the axiomatic assumption that the computer arrived at consciousness, it is clear you wish to start from the assumption computers can develop consciousness. In that case, it is generally accepted that it is possible we are a computer program. There's a few counterexamples, but in general, philosophies which argue that it is impossible for us to be computer programs also exclude the idea of computers developing a consciousness (which is contradictory to one of your fundamental axioms in the question).

That being said, the jump between "it is not impossible" and "it is true" is going to be a great leap. Along the way, if you chose to pursue that line of thinking, you will find that you need to beat down many of the leaps of intuition you make in the story. Nearly every other sentence in your question contains an assumption so massive and contestable that you could make an entire philosophy career out of them. If you wish to convince others to agree with your position, expect to have to work to get there.

Answer 3

Nobody knows whether we not are just a computer programm.

Hence your question makes the presupposition, that we are no computer program. But that presupposition has to be demonstrated first.

Of course, the view that we just are a computer program is a new and radical concept. Like most such concepts, at first it seems strange. But that’s no argument against being possibly correct. On the other hand, it's a good reason to work out arguments which support this view.

Insofar I consider your question very interesting and worth a serious discuss, free from prejudices.

The view, that we possibly are computer programs and that our seemingly real world is a virtual world has been discussed in chapter 10, Universes, Computers, and Mathematical Reality from Green, Brian: The Hidden Reality. Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos. 2011. Subsections “Are you living in a simulation” and “Seeing Beyond a Simulation” deal with the question from your post. In the latter subsection Green writes:

If you were living in a simulation, could you figure it out?

Green goes on to discuss two strategies how to program such a simulation. He names them “emergent strategy” and “ultra-reductionist strategy”. Green makes plausible that the simulated beings could detect by inconsistencies arising from each of these two strategies that they themselves and their environment are a computer simulation. But of course, other strategies are possible and also other models of computing than the digital computer we know today.

I would like to end with two questions:

• Which difference does it make for us whether we actually are the person who we normally think we are or whether we are a computer simulation? Under the presupposition that we live without knowing the answer.

• Is the conception of a virtual life in a computer more strange than the conception – propagated by many religions - of an afterlife in heaven or at a different place?

Answer 4

Short Answer: It's plausible, but we'll never know.

Longer Answer:

What follows is an analytical approach to this question. Different philosophies have different things to say about this sort of problem, so treat this as just one perspective.

This is a metaphysical question, and as such it's similar to many other unanswerable questions like the following:

• Is the world in my head?
• Are we all bumps on a log (or in The Matrix)?
• Is there a transcendent reality?

These questions make no testable predictions and so can be fit to any evidence. For instance...

• If I claim we're in a computer program and God comes out of the sky and says we're not, I can just claim that this too was part of the program.
• If I claim reality is in my head and you prove me wrong, I can claim your proof was also in my head.

And so on.

So first ask:

• Is there any evidence that can confirm or refute this?

If the answer is no, then the question is meaningless, and thus cannot be answered.

What if you're just asking if it's plausible that we are programs? Well it's plausible, but that's not saying much. After all, plausibility simply means that this proposition doesn't contradict existing evidence; the propositions above don't. It's easy for any proposition to fit the existing evidence if it says nothing testable.

Let's look more closely at some of the details of this claim. When we study the plausibility of this claim, we're asking if software can...

1. Simulate reality.
2. Host/achieve consciousness.

(1) is subject to processing power and storage, which is limited, but maybe the limits are enough -- especially if we consider things like parallel processing, quantum and grid computing.

(2) depends on the Hard Problem of consciousness, which is still controversial. Those who see consciousness as informational should have no problem with this.

But there's a deeper problem. How do we evaluate (1) and (2)? By looking at the state of our technology/knowledge. But we're not talking about OUR technology/knowledge, we're talking about those of whatever may be simulating us, which could be utterly different. In fact, limits on computing, consciousness and even physical laws could be arbitrary parameters of the simulation, as can be our cognitive limitations which can prevent us from seeing otherwise!

So what justifies these assumptions? Absolutely nothing.

And that's the problem. Without any kind of grounding, what can we say? We reason based on tautologies and/or observations, but once we postulate a super-sensible realm, there's nothing we can say about it, and no way to ground our reasoning. At that point, we can postulate anything, and there's no way to prove or disprove it and our assumptions are basically pulled out of thin air.

So yes, it's plausible, but this isn't saying much.

This is a fascinating question, and it can lead to interesting discussions and really broaden our perspective. However, that doesn't mean that it is a real question (one that can be answered now or in the future).

Metaphysical questions like these are a trap, and it's important to recognize them for the traps they are. In fact, Analytical Philosophy specializes in recognizing these kinds of traps and dispelling those kinds of questions, as it argues they can't be answered. Such philosophical "pseudo-problems" can't be resolved; they can only be dissolved. Or as Wittgenstein said:

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

If you're interested in this kind of approach to philosophical problems, I recommend reading Language, Truth and Logic by AJ Ayer. He provides a very readable treatment of these traps, how they arise, and their implications.