I've been considering the idea that matter, or some material substance, has either always existed, or just began to exist because it's necessary that it exist. In either event, it was chaotic, constantly moving and without any discernible form. After so much time, from this chaotic matter came an intelligent entity (God) that was able to move within the frame of time. After even more time, God learned everything there was about matter, enabling God to bring the chaotic matter to order.

Is there anything illogical about this idea?

Can a single act of order come from chaos?

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    Please define matter. Everybody forgets to do this. You say it exists eternally and yet you'll find it difficult to prove it exists right now. Metaphysics is not straightforward. You assume that an intelligent God arose from matter and there is certainly something illogical about this idea, just as there is about the eternal existence of matter. Likewise, a thing cannot move if it has no form. You have also reified space-time, which leads to well-known logical problems. A somewhat muddled question I'd say.
    – user20253
    Aug 21, 2017 at 10:03
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    God learned everything there was about matter, enabling God to bring the chaotic matter to order Chaos cannot be learned. At least, one must make some assumptions about how chaos is functioning, which means one has brought in some order to (thoughts about) it.
    – ttnphns
    Aug 21, 2017 at 12:41
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    Note that "chaotic" processes such as random data can time to time form samples/configurations of pretty clear patterns.
    – ttnphns
    Aug 21, 2017 at 12:43
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    What about the other gods? Had they appeared as a result of natural selection, too?
    – Rodrigo
    Aug 21, 2017 at 22:42
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    @Rodrigo There's really no need. Once the first God was prepared, It could then prepare any other gods much quicker than waiting for it to happen by chance.
    – Cannabijoy
    Aug 22, 2017 at 10:33

2 Answers 2


The Taoist cosmology actually operates in a very similar way. Wuji (無極) is a concept similar enough to the chaos you describe to draw an analogy. From Wuji, comes a single point, Taiji (太極), which is often translated as the "supreme ultimate," with yin and yang. Taiji then expands outwards to encompass the whole of the reality we live in. The point where Wiji becomes Taiji is a subject of great fascination, for it is a moment where a thing is polar yet non-polar. It has all the differentiation needed to flourish, yet is yet undifferentiated.

I would leave it to a Taoist or a scholar to pen the exact connection between their cosmology and yours, but I see enough of a similarity to say it's worth looking into further.


The distinction between order and chaos is an illusion. Whatever appears chaotic from one perspective appears ordered from another. "Chaos" & "order" become meaningless and arbitrary concepts when you look at them at a deeper level.

I believe this is expressed best in the following excerpt from the Principia Discordia :

The Aneristic Principle is that of apparent order; the Eristic Principle is that of apparent disorder. Both order and disorder are man made concepts and are artificial divisions of pure chaos, which is a level deeper than is the level of distinction making.

With our concept-making apparatus called "the brain" we look at reality through the ideas-about-reality which our cultures give us. The ideas-about-reality are mistakenly labeled "reality" and unenlightened people are forever perplexed by the fact that other people, especially other cultures, see "reality" differently.

It is only the ideas-about-reality which differ. Real (capital-T) True reality is a level deeper than is the level of concept. We look at the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids. A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it. The order is in the grid. That is the Aneristic Principle.

Western philosophy is traditionally concerned with contrasting one grid with another grid, and amending grids in hopes of finding a perfect one that will account for all reality and will, hence, (say unenlightened westerners) be true. This is illusory; it is what we Erisians call the Aneristic Illusion. Some grids can be more useful than others, some more beautiful than others, some more pleasant than others, etc., but none can be more True than any other.

Disorder is simply unrelated information viewed through some particular grid. But, like "relation", no-relation is a concept. Male, like female, is an idea about sex. To say that male-ness is "absence of female-ness", or vice versa, is a matter of definition and metaphysically arbitrary. The artificial concept of no-relation is the Eristic Principle.

The belief that "order is true" and disorder is false or somehow wrong, is the Aneristic Illusion. To say the same of disorder, is the Eristic Illusion.

The point is that (little-t) truth is a matter of definition relative to the grid one is using at the moment, and that (capital-T) Truth, metaphysical reality, is irrelevant to grids entirely. Pick a grid, and through it some chaos appears ordered and some appears disordered. Pick another grid, and the same chaos will appear differently ordered and disordered.

— Malaclypse the Younger, Principia Discordia, pages 00049–00050

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