For someone who studies Daoism, how would they make another Daoist see that they are in fact following the Dao?

Question

For a quick summary of the Dao, here is an excerpt of what it is in the book Effortless Action: Wu-wei as Conceptual Metaphor and Spiritual Ideal in Early China

The culmination of knowledge is understood not in terms of a grasp of abstract principles but rather as an ability to move through the world and human society in a manner that is completely spontaneous and yet still fully in harmony with the normative order of the natural and human worlds—the Dao or "Way."

However, in order to reach that spontaneity and yet still fully in harmony, it is necessary to pass through the abstract stage. This is simply how our brain works. If we insist to pass the abstract stage to jump to the spontaneity stage, I think the harmony is just an illusion created by our sense of pride that we know the Dao. Since pride is a self-conscious emotion, this is not Daoism because it advocates selflessness. Another article that illustrates this is There’s more to mathematics than rigour and proofs.

Question 1: Is my understanding correct? Am I missing something?

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Still, the scholars feel that what they do can't never be Daoistly satisfied. This is best illustrated in the article Zhuang Zi: A funhouse mirror for the soul

Here too I’m running into problems, however. In speaking for the Zhuang Zi, I’m somewhat uncomfortable, just as I would be uncomfortable speaking for a friend. I’m not alone in my discomfort. [...] Master Zhuang [...] appears to have engineered his work to resist definitive interpretation. [...] ‘Whenever I sit down and try to write seriously about Zhuang Zi,’ he explained, ‘I seem, somewhere in the back of my head, to hear Zhuang Zi cackling away at the presumption and futility of such an endeavour.’

Question 2: If the author can't explain to his friend Zhuangzi that what he does is what his friend wants him to do, then how can he justify his action?

^{Also ask on Reddit}

Answer 1

For your first question, it seems like you're still trying to codify, standardize or otherwise pin down the process of achieving the Dao, which is against the spirit of the sources you're quoting. Therefore I read you as an outsider studying the Dao from an external context, rather than as a student of the Dao yourself. From that point of view, your claim is plausible, but it would be difficult to know what would count as an authority to either confirm or deny your hypothesis.

For your second question, one must remember that Zhuangzi was an iconoclast --a Socrates-like gadfly --who was in some ways opposed even to other Daoists. You cannot expect to look to such a figure for justification, his role is to move you outside your comfort zone, and to frustrate your desires for surety. Attempting to please or impress Zhuangzi is a fool's errand, something your second author is somewhat shamefacedly admitting.

Answer 2

I will try to answer just the first question.

I think that, just as in buddhism we can speak of a faith-follower, we may speak of a unconscious/involuntary Dao follower that just follows what somebody else says, but not fully comprehending the implications or reasons behind that prescriptive or normative knowledge.

For example, some christians may just blindly follow the idea of being "poor in spirit", and so they will live a life free from material attachment while just trying to assure a place in heaven for themselves. This hypothetical person is not understanding the reasons behind that prescriptive idea or rule, but, at the same time, he might be perceiving the fruits of following that principle. That person, in my opinion, may qualify as one who passes the abstract step and lives the experiential step.

I'm holding the view that spontaneity can occur not by understanding exclusively. And, by extension, you might be a Daoist without agreeing with, let's say, the Dao De Ching (because may contradict the way in which the same principles are worded, or because the DDC was not written by Jesus, following the example given above).

Kind regards!

Answer 3

It is correct that both question 1 and 2 clearly show an effort to codify, standardize or otherwise pin down the process of achieving the Dao, therefore, as Chris Sunami says, it is against the spirit of it. However, since learning is a necessary process, there is no need to be shame when you are in that stage. To move to the spontaneity stage, you need to be ready for it. Moving to the spontaneity stage needs to be spontaneous as well. Going up too soon will be an effort against the Dao.

Therefore, if Zhuangzi cackles when you are in the process of learning, then he is simply wrong. The best way to respond him is to ignore him, and focus on what you need to do. Or maybe cackling him back. Only that way that he will be satisfied. That is the answer he hopes you realize.