Can anyone point me to written arguments which point out any documented behavior of any animal which is incompatible with an animals-as-robots model? The model I mean claims animals lack the general intelligence humans have and aren't able to learn anything that goes beyond the knoweldge already in their genes. A good argument would explain why the animal behavior cannot be accounted for by software algorithms like the non-AGI algorithms we know how to program today and use in video games, self-driving cars, computer vision, etc.

If not, then I will conclude that there is no evidence that animals suffer any more than self-driving cars do (zero).

See also:

  • 4
    You are aware that humans are animals, right?
    – IMil
    Nov 21, 2019 at 4:49
  • 4
    the wording of your questions and comments presents zero evidence for you being in any way different from a robot model
    – IMil
    Nov 21, 2019 at 4:54
  • 2
    There is no behavior incompatible with humans-as-robots "model". Universal Turing machines are called universal for a reason, they can, in principle, emulate any given behavior. When they are a good model is another question entirely. And generally, you should not conclude too much from responses on a website.
    – Conifold
    Nov 21, 2019 at 5:13
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    It seems to me that this question is based on shaky premises. First humans are animals so the set of all animals clearly contains animals with human-like intelligence. Second, the common ancestor of all animals goes back very far when the brain emerged so the brains of our closest relatives aren't that radically different such that one has the ability to learn and one doesn't. And third that's not how genes work, like at all. Genes aren't comparable to programming code or "knowledge".
    – Cell
    Nov 21, 2019 at 5:38
  • 1
    Ravens have been shown to consider the individual traits of their peers and fake intentions in order to mislead them, which involves awareness of first-order dispositions of others and the existence of second-order dispositions (Dummet). They even have some sense of magnitude or are able to actually count. Any search on "raven intelligence" on google scholar would do. The "problem" here is that we should be careful to think that everything works according to algorithms just because algorithms can be used to describe basically anything. Things maybe are not the way we like to think (of) them.
    – Philip Klöcking
    Nov 21, 2019 at 8:23

1 Answer 1


How would it be to treat animals as though (they were inanimate like) self-driving cars?

William Blake can answer that better than I ever could

Auguries of Innocence

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

A robin redbreast in a cage
Puts all heaven in a rage.

A dove-house fill'd with doves and pigeons
Shudders hell thro' all its regions.
A dog starv'd at his master's gate
Predicts the ruin of the state.

A horse misused upon the road
Calls to heaven for human blood.
Each outcry of the hunted hare
A fibre from the brain does tear.

A skylark wounded in the wing,
A cherubim does cease to sing.
The game-cock clipt and arm'd for fight
Does the rising sun affright.

Every wolf's and lion's howl
Raises from hell a human soul.

The wild deer, wand'ring here and there,
Keeps the human soul from care.
The lamb misus'd breeds public strife,
And yet forgives the butcher's knife.

The bat that flits at close of eve
Has left the brain that won't believe.
The owl that calls upon the night
Speaks the unbeliever's fright.

He who shall hurt the little wren
Shall never be belov'd by men.
He who the ox to wrath has mov'd
Shall never be by woman lov'd.

The wanton boy that kills the fly
Shall feel the spider's enmity.
He who torments the chafer's sprite
Weaves a bower in endless night.

The caterpillar on the leaf
Repeats to thee thy mother's grief.
Kill not the moth nor butterfly,
For the last judgement draweth nigh.

He who shall train the horse to war
Shall never pass the polar bar.
The beggar's dog and widow's cat,
Feed them and thou wilt grow fat.

The gnat that sings his summer's song
Poison gets from slander's tongue.
The poison of the snake and newt
Is the sweat of envy's foot.

The poison of the honey bee
Is the artist's jealousy.

The prince's robes and beggar's rags
Are toadstools on the miser's bags.
A truth that's told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.

It is right it should be so;
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.

Joy and woe are woven fine,
A clothing for the soul divine.
Under every grief and pine
Runs a joy with silken twine.

The babe is more than swaddling bands;
Every farmer understands.
Every tear from every eye
Becomes a babe in eternity;

This is caught by females bright,
And return'd to its own delight.
The bleat, the bark, bellow, and roar,
Are waves that beat on heaven's shore.

The babe that weeps the rod beneath
Writes revenge in realms of death.
The beggar's rags, fluttering in air,
Does to rags the heavens tear.

The soldier, arm'd with sword and gun,
Palsied strikes the summer's sun.
The poor man's farthing is worth more
Than all the gold on Afric's shore.

One mite wrung from the lab'rer's hands
Shall buy and sell the miser's lands;
Or, if protected from on high,
Does that whole nation sell and buy.

He who mocks the infant's faith
Shall be mock'd in age and death.
He who shall teach the child to doubt
The rotting grave shall ne'er get out.

He who respects the infant's faith
Triumphs over hell and death.
The child's toys and the old man's reasons
Are the fruits of the two seasons.

The questioner, who sits so sly,
Shall never know how to reply.
He who replies to words of doubt
Doth put the light of knowledge out.

The strongest poison ever known
Came from Caesar's laurel crown.
Nought can deform the human race
Like to the armour's iron brace.

When gold and gems adorn the plow,
To peaceful arts shall envy bow.
A riddle, or the cricket's cry,
Is to doubt a fit reply.

The emmet's inch and eagle's mile
Make lame philosophy to smile.
He who doubts from what he sees
Will ne'er believe, do what you please.

If the sun and moon should doubt,
They'd immediately go out.
To be in a passion you good may do,
But no good if a passion is in you.

The whore and gambler, by the state
Licensed, build that nation's fate.
The harlot's cry from street to street
Shall weave old England's winding-sheet.

The winner's shout, the loser's curse,
Dance before dead England's hearse.

Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

We are led to believe a lie
When we see not thro' the eye,
Which was born in a night to perish in a night,
When the soul slept in beams of light.

God appears, and God is light,
To those poor souls who dwell in night;
But does a human form display
To those who dwell in realms of day


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