1

It seems to me that if everyone refused to say when a monogamous relationship was over, refused to tell someone of their affairs, and so on, then no monogamous relationships could exist. If relationships of these sorts were never obeyed, or clarified, they would not exist, right? Even if they could exist as one off events in someone's life, they could not last, and it's difficult to conceive of -- not just will -- monogamy never existing twice in anyone's life.

Have I misunderstand the universalizing principle there, or is there a perfect categorical imperative here, according to Kant's system. Is it just an imperfect duty?

2
  • i just very much think it would be using someone as a means, whoever you are
    – user67675
    Sep 23, 2023 at 23:28
  • @prof_post When a user is grayed out and reverted to userXXXXX, their account is deleted, so they won't get your message
    – J D
    Sep 23, 2023 at 23:41

3 Answers 3

1

'It seems to me that if everyone refused to say when a monogamous relationship was over, refused to tell someone of their affairs, and so on, then no monogamous relationships could exist.'

I don't see that the conclusion follows, because it takes no account of monogamous relationships that persist and are not over.

'If relationships of these sorts were never obeyed, or clarified, they would not exist, right?'

I am not sure what work 'or clarified' is doing but if the requirements (whatever they are) of a monogamous relationship were 'never obeyed' then the relationship might continue to have a legal or formal existence but would not actually be practised. In this sense it would not exist.

'Even if they could exist as one off events in someone's life, they could not last, and it's difficult to conceive of -- not just will -- monogamy never existing twice in anyone's life.'

Uncertainty again: is this is meant to follow logically from your previous statements or is offered independently of them?

Let's start from Kantian basics. Does he privilege monogamy? Yes, quite clearly he does in The Metaphysics of Morals (1797):

The relation of partners in a marriage is a relation of equality of possession, equality both in their possession of each other as persons (hence only in monogamy, since in polygamy the person who surrenders herself gains only a part of the man who gets her completely, and therefore makes herself into a mere thing), and also equality in their possession of material goods. (Kant, The Metaphysics of Morals, §26, tr. M. Gregor, Cambridge: CUP, 2017, 68-9.)

How does this relate to Kantian ethics? Kant's argument (and his response to your question) is roughly as follows. It is in and only in a monogamous relationship that each person surrenders her/ his-self completely to the other. Each allows the other to own their person: X owns Y's person and Y owns X's person. From this perspective, neither will lose their own person and become a mere thing (something to be used as a mere means). Only so can the formula of humanity be respected in sexual relationships.

This seems a strange argument. How does X own and not lose their own person by owning Y's person and Y's owning X's person? How can I own myself and be the property of another?

Kant's response, or at part of it, seems to given at §25. In mongamy (which he clearly has in mind in view of §26):

one person is acquired by the other as if it were a thing, the one who is acquired acquires the other in return (Gregor: 68).

How to justify the 'as if'?

Kant adds:

That this right against a person is also akin to a right to a thing rests on the fact that if one of the partners in a marriage has left or given itself into someone else's possession, the other partner is justified, always and without question, in bringing its partner back under its control, just as it is justified in retrieving a thing. (Gregor: 68.)

But if X brings Y back under X's control (this relates to infidelity in your question), we are still in the paradoxical situation in which X owns and does not lose their own person because X owns Y's person and Y's owns X's person and the question remains (to repeat): How can I own myself and be the property of another?

My suggestion is that you are right to raise questions about what one might term the moral logic of Kant's account of monogamy but that the real problems about that logic are located elsewhere.

References

I. Kant, The Metaphysics of Morals, tr. M. Gregor, Cambridge: CUP, 2017.

L. Pakadaki, 'Kantian Marriage and Beyond: Why It Is Worth Thinking about Kant on Marriage', Hypatia , SPRING 2010, Vol. 25, No. 2 (SPRING 2010): 276-294.

C. Korsgaard, 'Creating the kingdom of ends: Reciprocity and responsibility in personal relations', Creating the kingdom of ends. Cambridge: CUP, 1996: 188-221.

5
  • hi geoffery "the relationship might continue to have a legal or formal existence" but the same goes for property and theft, which fails the universalization test
    – user46524
    Jun 25, 2020 at 18:07
  • 1
    Hi unidentified. I do not need the clause you cite, so have deleted it. And you still have not said what you mean by 'or clarified'. Do you need it? I I have tried to give a clear account, textually based, of Kant's argument for mongamy. Kant relies on the principle of humanity - of not using another as an end or mere object which in his view monogamy alone satisfies in sexual relationships. I have suggested a difficulty here, namely that Kant's 'each owning the other' formula is paradoxical. I'm not sure I can do any more.
    – Geoffrey Thomas
    Jun 25, 2020 at 20:18
  • only the universalization test?
    – user46524
    Jun 25, 2020 at 20:56
  • unidentified. '... only the universalization test?' Could you clarify? I'm quite willing to engage but am missing your point - my fault. Best - Geoff
    – Geoffrey Thomas
    Jun 25, 2020 at 22:06
  • i mean, is infidelity and or a lack of clarity about infidelity, something that we can or can't universalize?
    – user46524
    Jun 25, 2020 at 23:21
1

I'm not a Kant scholar, but he clearly had a strong position in favor of monogamous marriage and against sexual license, which doesn't leave much room to justify infidelity. Here's a textbook chapter which explains:

He objects to casual sex (by which he means sex outside of marriage), however consensual, on the grounds that it is degrading and objectifying to both partners. Casual sex is objectionable, he thinks, because it is all about the satisfaction of sexual desire, not about respect for the humanity of one’s partner. Even when casual sex involves the mutual satisfaction of the partners, “each of them dishonours the human nature of the other. They make of humanity an instrument for the satisfaction of their lusts and inclinations.” [...] In stark contrast to libertarian notions of self-possession, Kant insists that we do not own ourselves. The moral requirement that we treat persons as ends rather than as mere means limits the way we may treat our bodies and ourselves.

For a deeper and more critical look, you might want to check out the article "Kantian Marriage and Beyond: Why It Is Worth Thinking about Kant on Marriage" by Lina Papadaki.

2
  • 1
    Kant's basis for claiming that sex somehow disrespects one's humanity (but not if it happens in a committed long-term heterosexual monogamous relationship, supposedly) has a whole lot of problems, in the vague and contrived definition of "natural", presumably some cherry-picking to allow for non-reproductive sex within monogamous relationships, and putting a questionable amount of moral significance on the act of sex. Related: Against Kant's view of monogamy
    – NotThatGuy
    Sep 25, 2023 at 7:51
  • 1
    @NotThatGuy I’d agree. Unlike elsewhere where I’ve claimed his stance on lying consistently follows from his Categorical Imperative (so I don’t accept the CI, to avoid his extreme rule there), Kant’s views on sexuality seem to have a very poor empirical basis, and do not seem wedded to the CI at all.
    – Hokon
    Sep 26, 2023 at 19:16
1

Prof_post asks in his bounty:

I just want to know what Kant would think of not letting another person know when a romantic relationship is over. [Do] we have a duty not to do so?

Kant clearly favors monogamy, as Kant saw this as the only one for one's humanity to be mutually respected regarding sexual desire (see Geoffrey's accepted answer to this question for the details). I believe that his answer sufficiently described that issue, and will not comment further on that aspect. To Prof_post's renewed focus to this concern by the OPer, regarding an obligation or not to inform our partner if it is over or not, Kant would likely have said the following:

First, going back to the Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals (1785), we have a perfect duty to never be dishonest. He provides two ways to argue for this in that work, which Kant (perhaps controversially) claims are identical arguments (that is, the first and second formulations of the Categorical Imperative refer to the same Categorical Imperative, according to Kant). So, a trivial extension of that would be that one cannot lie to their partner should they ask: "Do you love me anymore?" or "Do you desire this relationship anymore?" Note however, honesty in regard to these questions are not identical to the cessation of the monogamous marriage. That is, one cannot appeal merely to his claim that we have a perfect duty to be honest to resolve this issue, since people can (and do) remain in loveless / passionless marriages. So, more analysis is required.

It's important to note that according to Kant, our sexual relations with others reduces each other to mere things, since we are sought for in terms of our sex, and not our rational agency. So, as with private property, the state has a role in regulating marriages. In that context, divorce is permissible given the legal system in place, which Kant himself admits can be dissolved for an “incompatibility and dissension between the parties, whereby unity and concord of will among them is impossible” (Kant, Lectures on Ethics 27:390).

To summarize: we have a perfect duty to be honest with our marriage partner as to our thoughts and feelings regarding the relationship. This is trivially deduced from his stance on dishonesty back in 1785. However, we are under no duty to dissolve the marriage (i.e., divorce) due to our concerns. Rather, the conditions under which a marriage is terminated is handled in conjunction with the state, which appears to be open-ended for Kant.


Sources:

Kant, Immanuel, Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals trans. Mary Gregor, Jens Timmermann, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2012.

Kant, Immanuel, Lectures on Ethics trans. Peter Heath. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1997.

Wilson, Donald, "Kant and the Marriage Right" Pacific Philosophical Quarterly, 2004, Vol. 85:1, 103–23.

5
  • 1
    excellent answer, thanks
    – user67675
    Sep 24, 2023 at 0:28
  • 1
    ok thanks. i don't suppose it matters to me rn. cheers
    – user67675
    Sep 24, 2023 at 0:41
  • suppose someone agreed to marry me, but then married someone else before telling me it was a "no". kinda a strange scenario, yes. is it dishonesty/infidelity? personally, i cannot think of anything stranger than someone accepting a proposal of mine, but i'm curious how "courtship" is meant to work
    – user67675
    Sep 24, 2023 at 5:08
  • 1
    @prof_post Don't sell yourself short =) It's definitely dishonest and Kant would deem it immoral on that basis alone. Infidelity . . . even though the two would not have had sex yet (since Kant forbids that before marriage), it would be emotional infidelity for sure. It sounds like a soap opera plot, has occurred from time to time in the real world (two people "elope" and return married).
    – Hokon
    Sep 24, 2023 at 5:13
  • 1
    ha yeah very "the graduate"... no wait, worse.
    – user67675
    Sep 24, 2023 at 5:15

You must log in to answer this question.