I don't understand this part. He seems to go back and forth on whether they support one another and whether they are actually successful. Some serious clarification is needed.

  • See Terry Penner & Christopher Rowe, Plato's Lysis (Cambridge University Pressy, 2005), Ch.5 216c1–221d6: what it is that loves, what it really loves, and why Sep 30 at 7:43
  • And see also Wiki's Lysis: "it is a dialogue of Plato which discusses the nature of philia (φιλία), often translated as friendship. [...] The Greek word which in the context of its time was more than just "friendship", and referred to an intimate love that developed between free men, a love that in certain cases could include the erotic. [...[ The search continues in an attempt to determine the first principle of friendship. " Sep 30 at 7:56
  • The dialogue (an early one) shows the typical Socrates' approach to investigation: the search for a definition. As often (always?) it ends in a disappointing way: "Socrates ends by admitting that for all their discussion, a proper definition is still elusive. And yet, Socrates says that he considers the two boys, Lysis and Menexenus, as friends, even though he failed to define it properly. 1/2 Sep 30 at 8:03
  • Although Socrates managed to refute all of his definitions, there are reasons to believe that his last, the one where loving friendship exists between one who is good and one who is in-between, is what Plato intended as true, a definition consistent with the one Socrates gives of eros in the Symposium." 2/2 Sep 30 at 8:03

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