# The scale of decisions (Time and location) and chaos

Some ideas I am seeking thoughts on:

1. When I place a glass on the bench, how much was decision? I [presumably] did not decide to place it with atomic accuracy. What are the bounds of accuracy available to me and what bearing does that have on the decisions available to me? It would seem my decision equation is something like: DecisionOutcome = DecisionPrecisionAvailableToMe ± ErrorFromChaos Does that mean that all decisions are subject to chaos of varying degrees?

2. The same applies to time; did I choose to place the glass on the table at 12:00.00000 or 12:00.00001?

3. If I fail to catch a ball because I was either too late (or early), or spatially wrong in my actions, I [presumably] still chose to catch the ball. Is the chaos in decision increased with say, acceleration (the movement of the ball)?

• With your glass example, you are conflating decision-making with the result of the decision. The decision is merely to place the glass on the table so it doesn't fall over unless you introduce elements of time and accuracy into the decision-making process. Similarly, your choice to catch the ball is complete regardless of the outcome of the decision. The movement of the ball plays a part in the outcome. It probably only plays a part in the decision to the extent that you wouldn't try to catch the ball if you didn't think it was possible. Commented Feb 13, 2023 at 9:14
• Old wine in a brand new bottle mon ami. Not sayin' it ain't important though. Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 12:52

Your decisions are never inaccurate, they define the target, the intended outcome against which the accuracy of your executions is evaluated.

This inaccuracy of your decided actions is not due to chaos, it is due to randomness:

• If you don't know what exactly you should do to achieve your goal (to roll a die and get six), you have to do something random and hope for the best.
• If you do know exactly what you should do (to catch a ball), you cannot perform the act with absolute accuracy. There is some random noise in every step deteriorating the quality of your performance. With practice, you can improve your accuracy, but you will never reach absolute.

The difference between what you intend to do and what you actually do is closely related to signal-to-noise ratio. Your intention is the signal that gets diluted in the ambient noise until it is no longer detectable.

• I like the signal to noise concept. Makes me think of the uncertainty principle. I am not convinced it is randomness, but do accept it's probably not chaos. I think it is more like a rounding limitation. @άνθρωπος had 'measurement error', which I like. In context, if a tried to replicate placing a cup in exactly the same spot n=100, then the error wouldn't be random, but rather a limitation of the measuring device (my eyes etc). Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 4:54
• Noise=randomness. All errors are random, no-one ever decides to make an error. There are random errors in both placing the cup and the measurement of it. Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 8:37

Your are greatly over-estimating the human ability to act with temporal and spatial precision. I would be surprised if an average person, without practice, could perform an act to within 0.1 second or 0.1mm.

You are also misusing the word chaos, as its usual meaning is complete disorder.

The acceleration of the ball, which you mentioned in the final part of your question, might be a factor in certain circumstances. For example, in cricket a ball that bounces unpredictably is more likely to be missed by a batter. However, you should not imagine that the movement of the ball affects the accuracy of the batter. The batter makes decisions with some degree of precision; the movement of the ball determines the degree to which the precision of the batter is sufficient.

• Your first paragraph is incorrect. I made the point in (1) that we cant place to atomic precision. And (2) was the analogue of that with respect to time. I think you are right about the misuse of the word chaos. But something tells me it's not randomness either. So I will think about this a bit more. Thanks Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 4:44

"To catch the ball" it is not decision - it is reflex. You can't think an move together(maybe some one can, but it s very very hard). You either think or you act. When you decide to "place a glass on the bench", you decide to end the control of not-doing, not at doing. you have decided to do something "because", and then you decide to wait and not do an action till the moment. It is like taut bowstring- you dont need a decision to shoot, you need to decide when you release the bowstring. All other action is the reflex of bowing, catching and else serial of simple motions, that are unconscious.

Time is an illusion with reflection. You don't have a clock in the head with either mechanic or atomic. To feel the moment of time - is a reflex. Reflexes accuracy depends training, not on thought decision. But reflex consists of simple segments, you may make an effort to switch the segment, but if fast moment it is not a decision. There is time limit the braine become aware of what is happening - read about Libet Experiment. There is a gap between braine activity (the decide, probably) connecting to nervous and motions about 250+250* ms between thinking and doing. Also the nervous accepting the braine signals/commands is different, fastest and most precise are eyes and fingers - Fine motor skills. In theory FMS needed to create definitions for braine primarily, in you don't able to write small symbols by hand. your braine haven't small segments of reflections, that mean that your braine have less ability to make fast switching between other simple actions.

The speed and the precision are close and work together. But not all decisions need fast and accurately execution. Strategic, tactic and technically are not same. You can up the catching skill if you think out the plane of the trainers, or change a starting position before catching. What is the decision to catch? - you don't need it if you had prepared.

So, you formula needs more variables, and the chaos is not a variable - it is a measurement error, and other accidents, and the black swans rarely. And this is only if the black swan is not a reality, but it esti, that means the chaos is not the swans - not the reality's "answer", but your self decide.

*250ms is a middle number, im retard and have 300 ms on fingers reaction(reflex) speed, Messi i think have 100-150 ms.

• To catch a ball can be the opposite of reflex, can't it? I can plan to catch it before you even throw it. Also, people think and move simultaneously almost constantly. I'm thinking while my fingers strike the keyboard. Commented Feb 13, 2023 at 10:03
• Motion action is the reflex, logic patterns, thinking are reflexes too) , not the reflex is an ability to stop doing. You are thinking not same the moving, you are able to thinking another things or actions. To think same as the motion act - it is very hard because it is breaking the act(you don't think that you tapping on keyboard, you thing about answer the question or reading, tapping is synchronize with inner speaking the words, but you don't think what your fingers feel when touching the keyboard), switching is possible and depends on the mastery. Commented Feb 13, 2023 at 10:16
• Reflex mastery meaning also that your brain cut all side feelings and motions and else irritants, and concentrates on the decide. But your decide is not tapping, your decide is "to say something" by fingers, not by voice. That your fingers doing is not "your decide". Commented Feb 13, 2023 at 10:18
• Thanks, I will check Libet experiment. I think your line of reasoning hits a problem of having to draw a line in the sand between decision and reflex. Can you tell me where one starts and the other ends? Measurement error is probably a good term instead of chaos. Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 4:48
• initiated stop/pause is not a reflex, all other are reflexes. when you tell that it is "your decide" that should mean you can stop in every moment +/- reaction measure gap, if you did not control it - it is not "your decision". Also that mean you can stop all other triggers and irritations, and do only that you will. will is skill to stop reflexes - main or foreign sides, switch ability. free will is a tricky concept, cuz you are able to stop/switch but in frames of the rules - that mean it is not your will, you are in rules creators will - God, or "big people"(politics, corps) - others. Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 9:23