Timeline for Frege On sense and Reference - question about something Frege says about Sense vs Ideas
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
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| 2 days ago | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 12 at 14:21 | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 12 at 14:13 | comment | added | Ram Tobolski | @Curulian The ideas = mental pictures are just subjective hooks. They are not part of the sense = the thought. The sense = thought is shared among the parties and makes communication possible. Suppose we talk about Aristotle. In my mind, unknown to you, I have a mental picture of Aristotle with a hat. In your mind, unknown to me, you have a mental picture of Aristotle without a hat. These two mental pictures = ideas make no difference in the communication. They are not part of what is communicated berween us. Therefore they are not part of the sense = thought. | |
| Dec 10 at 19:36 | comment | added | Curulian | @RamTobolski but if sense is a mode of presentation, then two mental pictures of Aristotle, one with a hat and one without a hat, would be two different modes of presentation (one with a hat and one without) and so two different senses. How could the sense be the same? You have two expressions or thoughts, but no matter how you define sense it is hard for me to see how the sense of two different thoughts could come apart from the associated idea unless you pull a trick where you treat (as you have) two different senses as one. | |
| Dec 4 at 13:45 | comment | added | Ram Tobolski | @Curulian You seem to interpret Frege as if he said that one can have a sense without an idea. But what Frege actually said was that one doesn't need the same idea every time. Suppose e.g. that I have two mental pictures of Aristotle, one with a hat and one without a hat. When I refer to Aristotle on one occasion I can have in mind the hatted Aristotle picture, and on another occasion the unhatted Aristotle picture. The sense of Aristotle was the same but the ideas were different. This is what Frege talked about. | |
| Nov 22 at 22:17 | comment | added | Curulian | But still, what does "The same sense is not always connected, even in the same man, with the same idea" mean? If thought is like a proposition (as it seems from your quote) then how could "that Aristotle was hairy" or "that a triangle has 3 sides" ever come apart in the same person from someones associated idea/idea of Aristotle or triangles? I cannot express any thought or sense about triangles without having a mental picture of them having 3 sides, it seems to me. | |
| Nov 22 at 11:55 | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 22 at 11:31 | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 22 at 11:05 | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 22 at 10:58 | history | edited | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 22 at 10:27 | history | answered | Mauro ALLEGRANZA | CC BY-SA 4.0 |