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Suppose that the universe is definite and that every single thing in the universe comes down to atoms moving around in particular ways with defined properties at every single moment.

Now, does it follow from just this knowledge that the world is deterministic? Is there a way to show that a definite reality implies some sort of law or some predictive mechanism that lets you know the future from the past? Or no?

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  • How do you define "definite" and distinguish the term from "deterministic"?
    – Jo Wehler
    Commented Apr 8 at 21:54
  • Definite means there is only one reality and it is made of constituents with definite properties at each moment. Deterministic means I can predict the future of the universe from the current state of the universe. (To me so let’s go with that)
    – Baby_philosopher
    Commented Apr 8 at 22:18
  • The definition of the term "definite" as definiendum should not use the same tern "definite" as definiens, i.e. as part of the definition.
    – Jo Wehler
    Commented Apr 8 at 22:22
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    Obviously not. That all parameters have definite values at any given time says absolutely nothing about their values at any future time. There is no inferring any law to such effect, even some perfectly "definite" classical models are indeterminsitic, see Norton dome.
    – Conifold
    Commented Apr 8 at 23:11
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    If reality was deterministic, it would not necessarily mean that the future is always fully knowable ahead of time. On the other hand even if the universe was not deterministic, often some aspects of the future could still be knowable ahead of time from the past. So for most intents and purposes, this is the wrong question to ask, as the answer is irrelevant for most peoples actual concerns. A better question to ask would be: "How well predictable is ...?".
    – tkruse
    Commented Apr 9 at 14:29

1 Answer 1

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Nothing implies determinism.

Quantum particles do not have definite properties, only probabilities.

Classical physics applies determinism by treating probabilities, averages and approximations as if they were definite values.

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  • Of course what said is valid but does not address the question itself. The answer can be improved
    – Nikos M.
    Commented Apr 9 at 14:53
  • Quantum particles do not have definite properties, only probabilities. Proof?
    – Baby_philosopher
    Commented Apr 9 at 16:25
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    @Stella The Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
    – Pertti Ruismäki
    Commented Apr 10 at 3:49
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    @PerttiRuismäki That principle is about knowledge. “It states that there is a limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties, such as position and momentum, can be simultaneously known.” Your lack of knowledge is no proof of a lack of definite properties.
    – Baby_philosopher
    Commented Apr 10 at 4:19
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    @Stella Anything that is not knowable does not exist. The same applies to "hidden variables".
    – Pertti Ruismäki
    Commented Apr 10 at 4:52

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