0

A lot of the debate in philosophy is about whether or not god is simple.

Why does this matter? Let’s say god is the simplest being that you can imagine.

Under naturalism, you still have the physical universe along with all the processes in the universe that explain the different things going on.

Under theism, you have the very same things plus the existence of a god needed to supposedly explain the universe.

Even if you could show that there is some data that a) needs an explanation and b) requires a god to explain it, that would mean that theism has greater explanatory power, not that it is more simple.

Is there no way that theism can be simpler? If so, does this imply that without being able to show a) and b), the default option should be to not prefer theism?

13
  • 1
    Most theists would say that there is lots of data that requires a god to explain it, so general questions like this are just food for bickering. If you want to debate someone you have to start with premises you both agree on. Commented Jun 23 at 9:52
  • @DavidGudeman That would mean, even if true, that theism has greater explanatory power, not that it is more simple. The question is whether or not theism can be simpler in any respect.
    – Hart Lort
    Commented Jun 23 at 10:11
  • 3
    The question does not even attempt to spell out what 'simple' means or why whatever it means is of any significance. Adding 0 and negative numbers 'simplified' arithmetic and algebra, we no longer have to consider multiple cases of the cubic like medieval authors, so the the 'master argument' is trivially invalid as well.
    – Conifold
    Commented Jun 23 at 10:32
  • @Conifold if I said that one falling down a building due to only gravity is simpler than an invisible goblin that causes one to fall down using gravity, the person who then said “explain simple and how it’s relevant here” would be seen as pedantic by both the philosophically sophisticated and unsophisticated. You are that person.
    – Hart Lort
    Commented Jun 23 at 11:12
  • 1
    But you did not say it about a person falling down a building. Now reflect on the difference with the word of the same root in mind, "simplistic". And then reflect on what it is that makes the gravity simpler than the goblin after all. It could be instructive for making your query philosophically relevant.
    – Conifold
    Commented Jun 23 at 11:22

2 Answers 2

3

I agree with you. I would even say that theism is not only superfluous but leads astray.

Indeed, a naturalistic worldview currently has to leave open some of the big questions, e.g., about the origin of the world.

But there are many people who prefer a worldview with a personal god, who cares for his believers. A worldview which in the end always allows to take comfort in the belief “God knows”.

(I know that my view will not be shared by all participants on this site.)

0
1

You're conflating different meanings of explain: on the one hand, to describe in terms of predictable patterns of behavior; on the other hand, to satisfy the principle of sufficient reason.

Specifying a cause is always more complex in the sense of multiplying hypotheses than omitting a cause. "There is a kitten, and the principle of sexual reproduction explains where it came from" is more complex than "There is a kitten." It's just epistemically irrelevant.

No amount of kitten studies will change this formulation, because all the adjectives you pile onto kitten are going to get packed into both "there is a kitten" statements. We'll just have "There is a (long description) kitten, and the principle of sexual reproduction explains where it came from" versus "There is a (long description) kitten."

It is not possible to explain the kitten (describe the kitten in terms of predictable kitten patterns) well enough to explain the kitten (satisfy the principle of sufficient reason why there is a kitten).

Even if you study the kitten sufficiently to form a hypothesis about the reason why there is a kitten solely on the basis of the kitten's nature (i.e. by watching her grow up and reproduce, or by doing physical chemistry with a time-reversal operator to trace each molecule to its origin outside of the kitten), the reason why there is a kitten will inevitably describe something other than the kitten: an entity or entities outside the kitten and in some way higher up a hierarchy of necessity than her.

At this point, we're comparing two "There is a (long description) kitten, and the explanatory principle is..." statements.

If we have enough data, we can do Bayesian calculus with countable measured frequencies for priors and make reliable statistical predictions that we can all agree on.

Or we can make up arbitrary definitions of "complexity"... and quietly discard any which don't turn out to lead to our desired conclusion before we publish... while our interlocutor does the same with a different desired conclusion and different arbitrary definitions. Then we can have a drawn-out go-nowhere Complexity Fight over who has the Burden of Proof, based on one of the sayings of a 14th century monk whose authority we reject on all other topics, instead of actually presenting any arguments in favor of our claims. This is absolutely guaranteed to accomplish nothing whatsoever, but we can probably collect salaries and citations for doing it. Hurray!


Note that this concerns differences of explanation, not differences of description. It is entirely possible that our descriptions of the kitten will differ. For instance, I might believe that the kitten can adversely affect gambling probabilities by crossing a person's path, while you might not. At this point we can start collecting data and doing statistical analysis to figure out who is right.

1
  • When it comes to big questions, like the purpose of creation, the purpose of the creator - philosophers prefer to hide their head in the sand. Commented Jun 23 at 21:47

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .