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Graham Oppy is well-known for arguing that naturalism strikes the best balance between minimizing all of one's theoretical commitments and maximizing the explanation that one's theoretical commitments can do, in contrast to theism or supernaturalism. In other words, he contends that naturalism provides a more theoretically virtuous account of all the data than theism/supernaturalism does.

Looking at things in this way, is there any conceivable evidence or piece of data that could shift the balance, making theism or supernaturalism more theoretically virtuous than naturalism?


Papers in which the concept of 'theoretical virtues' is discussed

Arguments for atheism, by Graham Oppy:

Abstract
This paper considers three families of arguments for atheism. First, there are direct arguments for atheism: arguments that theism is meaningless, or incoherent, or logically inconsistent, or impossible, or inconsistent with known fact, of improbable given known fact, or morally repugnant, or the like. Second, there are indirect arguments for atheism: direct arguments for something that entails atheism. Third, there are comparative arguments for atheism: e.g., arguments for the view that (atheistic) naturalism is more theoretically virtuous than theism.

The Theoretical Virtues of Theism, by Joshua R. Sijuwade:

Abstract
In this article, I seek to assess the extent to which a ‘trope-theoretic’ version of Theism is a better theory than that of a theory of Atheism, as posited by Graham Oppy. This end will be achieved by utilising the systemisation of the theoretical virtues proposed by Michael Keas (as further modified by an application of the work of Jonathan Schaffer), the notion of a trope, introduced by D.C. Williams, and an aspect, proposed by Donald L.M. Baxter, which will establish the basis of the trope-theoretic account of Theism that will be at the centre of our analysis. This assessment will ultimately show that Theism, rather than that of Atheism (Naturalism), can successfully achieve the trade-off between minimising theoretical commitments and maximising explanatory power. And thus, given this, the best theory of Theism—namely, that of ‘trope-theoretic Theism’—is to be privileged over that of the best theory of Atheism—namely, that of ‘Oppyian Naturalism’—and is able to provide grounds for a decisive reassessment of the cogency of Agnosticism.
Keywords: theism; atheism; naturalism; theories; theoretical virtues

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    I am confused. How does striking the best balance between parsimony and explanatory value translate into "more parsimonious"? Maybe it is less parsimonious, but explanatory value makes up for it. And I can see how evidence can shift the balance by altering what is to be accounted for, but how can it do anything about parsimony? Parsimony is a property of the doctrine, not of the data.
    – Conifold
    Commented Apr 22 at 3:32
  • @Conifold Edited.
    – user66156
    Commented Apr 22 at 4:18
  • @NotThatGuy Would you say that a 'positively meaningful and reciprocal conscious relationship' would shift the balance?
    – user66156
    Commented Apr 22 at 5:27
  • @Mark The relationship I described there, yes. Although I'd just say "more rational" rather than "more theoretically virtuous" (even if people tend to get offended if one implies they're irrational). I wouldn't know how virtue is supposed to relate to the question. Although opinions vary on what's "rational". "Consistent with the principle of parsimony" or "Have greater explanatory power" may be more specific to what's being asked, although opinions vary on that too.
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Apr 22 at 5:55

3 Answers 3

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Preamble -- "Naturalism" is not a clear concept

As a start to this discussion, Oppy's definition of naturalism is seriously flawed:

Naturalism is the claim that there are none but natural causes, beings and forces. Naturalism entails that all causally efficacious beings and forces are located within the natural world. As noted above, naturalism is inconsistent with theism

Methodological naturalism, which is just to apply reasoning and empiricism to understand our world, is NOT inconsistent with theism. Theism is a possible consequence of applying methodological naturalism to our world, and that is how the world's major religions were originally developed.

Oppy seems to be trying a bait/switch. MATERIALISM, which is an ontological claim, is incompatible with theism. However, naturalist tests of materialism showed it to be untrue, in the physics breakthroughs of the early part of the 20th century. Matter is not fundamental.

Wish-it-were-so materialists have mostly rebranded themselves as physicalists. But physics is not an ontology, and the process of DOING physics requires presuming the reality of and causation by world 3 (referencing Popper's three worlds) relationships, processes and phenomena. Energy and entropy and curved space-time are all abstractions, rather than world 1 objects, so physics cannot be a monistic ontology. And physics cannot justify itself, requiring the prior validity of epistemology in philosophy. And physics is not and cannot be closed, as noted in Hempel's Dilemma. Therefore, physicalism cannot exclude causal deities. Daniel Stoljar made this point in his book-length justification of his walking away from physicalism: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R13R2OUNXMIN6H/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0415452627

If Oppy means physicalism by his claim that "naturalism" is contrary to theism, this claim is wrong (per Hempel, etc. above). If he means some other ontological claim, then he has to do a lot more to articulate what "naturalism" means, and show that it is actually a valid and coherent claim. Given the problems that "physicalism" has as an ontology, the possibility that a more general epistemological methodology could somehow transmogrify into an ontology does not look promising.

Without Oppy spelling out his views in a useful way, I will try a substitute. I will take Oppy as debating Spiritualist pluralism (that of the ontology of our universe, there is a substance or plane which supports non-physical conscious agents such as souls or Gods) vs. anti-spiritualist pluralism (that conscious agents may exist, but if they do so, they are always dependent upon a world 1 or world 3 substrate, such that causation is always ultimately traceable to a non-world 2 aspect of reality and there are no independent spiritual agents).

Evaluating spiritualism vs anti-spiritualism

Oppy offers an interesting and potentially useful metric for evaluating spiritualism vs anti-spiritualism, with his 'theoretically virtuous' standard. Lets try to walk thru his criteria with the redefinition above about what we are evaluating.

One issue I will repeatedly encounter with Oppy's paper, though, is that he prioritizes "simplicity" over predictive power in his approach to a virtues metric. But the "brute fact" leg of Munchausen will always be "simpler" than walking part way down the infinite series of explanations. Methodological naturalism/science ALWAYS prefers to walk down the infinite series leg as far as one can, despite the increased complexity this leads to (our scientific explanation of our world is astonishingly complex, such that no individual can fully comprehend even one sub-field of it). Science and methodological naturalism vastly prioritize explanatory power over simplicity, contra Oppy. Rather than simplicity, methodological naturalism prioritizes the predictive power of an explanation, based on its ability to be falsified (this is Popper's rewrite of Occam). I will reevaluate his criteria based on Popper's explanatory power/falsifiability criteria, rather than Oppy's simplicity.

I will also note that Oppy uses a very broad definition of "naturalism" (the claim being evaluated is equally broad with my recast to pluralist anti-spiritualism), and this collective category of claims includes moral realism, math realism, emergent phenomena, causal consciousness, and multiverse explanations for the origin of our universe. This collective of views is NOT any simpler than spiritual dualism, as my review below of a multiverse thesis vs a Godly Creation thesis shows for the origin of the universe test case, and as an examination of what is needed for emergent consciousness to be morally relevant efficacious causal agents does for the causal consciousness test case. Between the vast prioritization of explanatory power in actual science and methodological naturalism, plus an at least close wash on complexity (I think a case can be made that interactive spiritual dualism is logically simpler than the Popperian emergent dualism that I credit anti-spiritualism with -- interaction laws are needed in both cases, but emergence laws are needed too for the anti-spiritualist proposal), I ignore "simplicity" and just focus on explanatory power/testability.

3.1 Ultimate Explanation

While this is a useful question to ask, Oppy's treatment of it is seriously flawed. Per the Munchausen Trilemma, we CANNOT arrive at an "ultimate explanation", so scoring competing worldviews based on their inability to do so, is an impossible standard fallacy.

Oppy then resorts to his "simplicity" argument that we have "a global (efficient) causal order" that applies as a minimum to matter, consciousness, and abstractions "just because" is simpler than because a spiritual agent structured the universe that way. However, the real question is whether it is more or less explanatorily useful than that we have such an order because a conscious spiritual agent WANTED our universe to be ordered, or "just because"? The teleological answer is potentially predictively testable, so is superior per Popper's predictive rewrite of Occam. Whether it is actually usefully testable is an open question but in principle it is a more virtuous answer and we have one score for spiritual agency.

3.2 Order

Here Oppy is evaluating the Fine Tuning of our universe. He leads in with a preamble that Fine Tuning is in dispute, but this is not really the case among cosmologists. Oppy then peculiarly switches to the presumption that the universe may have become fine tuned at some point, vs. always being so tuned. But the cosmological alternatives to Fine Tuning (multiverse plus anthropic principle) all agree that our constants were set at the start of our universe, so the relevance of the question he then focused on is completely unclear. Both competing models hold our universe was fine tuned from the outset -- and both presume a pre-universe cause to our universe. His criteria does not sort.

One again, he invalidly argues based on simplicity, but he seems to not be aware of what the complexity is of the multiverse models. This review of Susskind's the Cosmic Landscape will highlight the complexity, and similarity to theist assumptions, behind multiverse thinking: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3JVQDAK1408BR?ref=pf_ov_at_pdctrvw_srp

When one looks at predictive power, these two approaches may be a wash with a small possible bias toward theism. Much of both models are not testable, but per interactive spiritualism, more of God claims are testable in principle than multiverses, which are so logically isolated from us that most aspects of them are intrinsically untestable.

However, the testing that HAS been done, leans toward the multiverse which predicts a tuned but not optimized universe, while theism predicts optimization for life. And with life possible in a vanishingly small fraction, less than 0.000001% of our universe, this universe is FAR from optimized for life.

In my judgement, this criteria is a wash, between the higher testability of spiritualism, vs the few tests leaning toward anti-spiritualism.

3.3 The Necessary and Knowable A Priori

Here Oppy discusses math, logic, modal concepts, morality, etc. -- all of world 3. He is presuming world 3 is knowable a priori, which I at least consider clearly false, as logical pluralism demonstrates. Whether these abstractions apply to our universe is an empirical question, not one knowable a priori.

Recasting this question from a priori to empirical arguments for logical, math, moral, etc. reality does not change the scoring of this issue. The simplest versions of materialism/physicalism are not compatible with the reality of these abstractions, but I have already recast Oppy's argument as being for a more complex ontological pluralism that allows for the reality of each of the above, but just denies independent spiritual agency. The reality of each of the above is an open question in both models, and neither is more predictive than the other. This subject is a wash.

3.4 (Objective) Value

Here Oppy takes a peculiar detour into necessitarianism, which he ascribes to both views, but which methodological naturalism intrinsically rejects. He cites the problems of Euthyphro for theistic moral necessitarianism, which is valid as far as it goes, but as we saw with Munchausen, inescapable contradictions are sometimes something we pragmatically must accept.

The main issue here is that spiritualism lends itself more to accepting that morality is real and matters than anti-spiritualism does. This leads to the disquiet among those who have discarded religion cited by Charles Taylor in A Secular Age. Is disquiet over a hole in one's worldview a useful test of competing worldviews? For a pragmatist, who thinks a major purpose of philosophy is to figure out how one should live -- my answer is a definite "yes". This subject is therefore a second win for Spiritualism.

3.5 Meaning

This subject is often mistakenly coupled with the moral question above, but it has a different outcome. My treating his anti-spirituality as accepting conscious agents is key here, and once one accepts conscious agency, Oppy legitimately cites the creation of meaning by existentialists as a legitimate source of meaning.

In symmetry to anti-spirituality, where most anti-spirituality is incompatible with meaning but a few versions are compatible with it, meaning is also an issue for most monotheism. In absolutist monotheisms there is little space for we humans to create valid meaning as our agency is irrelevant in an environment of an infinite and active agent. But there are also a few spiritual models that allow for human mattering, by limiting God and putting God inside time, so this issue is a wash.

3.6 Consciousness

Oppy very over-optimistically assumes that physicalism can (and actually has) answered the hard problem of consciousness -- contrary to the consensus of pretty much all other philosophers. But his anti-spirituality includes emergent dualism, which allows for causal consciousness, and because of that our observations of causal consciousness are a wash.

3.7 Reason

The existence and utility of higher reasoning is possible due to an evolutionary process due to the causal order of 3.1, and this is true for both spiritual and anti-spiritual worldviews. Oppy once more invalidly argues for a "simplicity" advantage for anti-spirituality, but under explanatory and predictive power, this is a wash.

3.8 Supernatural Experience

Relative to direct experiences of ghosts, the voice of God, guidance by spiritual guides, near death experiences etc, Oppy basically denies that these things happen. With approximately 30% of Americans reporting such direct experience, Oppy's denial comes across as just a regurgitation of dogmatism. The successful history of parapsych experiments of telepathy, remote viewing, animal communication, etc. demonstrate that spiritual interactionism makes useful testable predictions, which actually are confirmed. Denial of evidence is always anti-empirical and anti-methodological-naturalist, and is explanatorily refuted, so this criteria is a third win for spirituality.

3.9 (Supernatural) History

Here Oppy once more denies the evidence, where historical reports of miracles are no less supported than historical reports of non-miracles, but he dismisses the miracles in a special pleading fallacy. Oppy correctly points out that the historical evidences for spiritual entities support contradictory worldview narratives, hence it is difficult for all of them to be true simultaneously, but this is not a legitimate rationale to dismiss all of these evidences.

An interesting test of the history evidence is the convergence test. Why has religious evidence not converged on the One True Religion? A possible answer is that religious experiences are a combo of expectations and real spiritual events, which we have to interpret. And we humans evolved to be an anthropological species (small groups of hunter-gatherers) not a sociological one. But with the development of agriculture, we also developed sociology. And the growth of additional technologies has not left sociology stable long enough for the spiritual experiences to converge on the One True Religion. This speculation would propose that we DID have such a convergence when we were anthropological and the extreme similarities of Shamanism in anthropological settings around the world support this speculation. This example of testability of the spiritual hypothesis around the historic record shows a fourth dramatic win under the theoretical virtue standard for the spiritual model over the anti-spiritual one.

Wrap-up

I rephrased the comparison of worldviews that Oppy was evaluating into spiritual pluralism vs emergent anti-spiritual pluralism -- to be as generous to Oppy as possible. I also reevaluated theoretical virtue using Popper's testability/predictive power criteria, not Oppy's "simplicity". Once I did that, Oppy's 9 criteria he scored for theoretical virtue show 4 wins for spiritual pluralism, and zero for anti-spiritual pluralism.

Oppy's metric is worth looking at, and once the flaws that Oppy was applying to it are corrected, it shows the opposite of what Oppy claimed.

Addendum and caveat -- Oppy used his metric to evaluate justification for theism that others have argued lead to theism being a valid conclusion. He was running a conservative test, against the preferred data cited by his opponents. The point of a conservative test is that if THAT fails, then an unbiased test is not necessary. Oppy ran the test using the wrong criteria, and therefore incorrectly thought he has showed that Spiritualism was not credible.

My positive result doing the test correctly still faces a caveat. This list of issues was biased in favor of Spiritualism and theism, and the conclusion I reached, that this method supports spiritualism and theism, may be much less strongly supported by a more balanced list of evidence to examine. To do this right, a collaboration of theists and atheists should put a more comprehensive list of evidences to examine together, and then do this evaluation collaboratively too.

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  • Do you think it’s reasonable to judge the two views on some front by a second criteria if said front is a wash? If so, would simplicity be the second criteria? (If not, what do you think should be?) and if simplicity is the second criteria, which of Oppy’s points stands? Commented Apr 26 at 0:32
  • You mention emergent and interaction laws. What do you mean by them? Btw +1 for the detailed answer Commented Apr 26 at 0:33
  • Dcleve, your input here would be valuable: philosophy.stackexchange.com/q/112395/66156
    – user66156
    Commented Apr 26 at 0:58
  • @confusedcius Simplicity is an unclear enough criteria that it is not useful. And predictive power is almost never a wash. If it happens to be at the moment for one question, go look at other questions! And if there aren’t any to distinguish two models — then don’t decide between them now!
    – Dcleve
    Commented Apr 26 at 4:10
  • @confusedcius Emergence laws: Under what conditions does emergence happen, and not? What emerges? What are the causal relationships between the new thing and its substrate?
    – Dcleve
    Commented Apr 26 at 4:12
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If parsimony is meant as inherent complexity of a hypothesis, then I don’t think this is dependent upon evidence. If it is meant as the total number of assumptions one has to make, then the answer is simple: one simply needs more evidence. The more evidence you gather for a hypothesis, the less assumptions and postulates you need to make.

The problem with the god hypothesis in pretty much all cases is not merely about parsimony. It is about evidence. For any event, as long as it has a possible natural explanation, from a probabilistic standpoint, the P (naturalistic hypothesis) must be above 0. Even theists admit to this since they can atleast think of a natural explanation to everything. On the other hand, the P (theistic hypothesis) could be 0 and that is up for debate.

The disagreement often comes from the notion that theism is posited to explain certain things better than naturalism. But how can an explanation be better when we haven’t even established it as a candidate explanation? if there is no prior evidence for an explanation, then we have no reason to think that it is a candidate.

Now, what would possible evidence look like? That is subjective and up to judgment. But for me, this could include:

  • Predictions that come true
  • Miraculous experiences that many can verify
  • God showing up and revealing Himself instead of staying hidden
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  • So, in other words, Scripture is adequate evidence of God? It checks all three of your criteria.
    – Matthew
    Commented Apr 23 at 18:04
  • The misuse of Bayesian thinking to rationalize closemindedness is one of the major risks of the rise of Bayesianism in contemporary discourse. Our psychological predispositions to think that our views are much better supported than they are, is well documented. All closeminded ideologues are effectively Bayesians, who hold that their priors have so much confidence, that they can dismiss refuting evidences as likely mistaken or misinterpreted. Given this -- it is always a far better approach for philosophers to put their priors aside, and look at evidence without a prior bias.
    – Dcleve
    Commented Apr 24 at 16:34
  • Also, the opening paragraph argues to a very false conclusion. "The more evidence you gather for a hypothesis, the less assumptions and postulates you need to make." Instead, tests and evidence reveal surprises, and EVERY theory has to be complexified in the face of the embarrassment that evidence and testing leads to. Our world is almost unimaginably complex, testing almost always leads to surprises that were not predicted, and every theory in science has grown immensely in complexity as it is tested and refined.
    – Dcleve
    Commented Apr 24 at 16:38
  • We need some double-blind controlled tests. Does theism allow testing on human subjects without their informed consent? Hmm.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented Apr 27 at 11:54
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What kind of evidence would make theism/supernaturalism more theoretically virtuous than naturalism?

Objective evidence.

Objective evidence is for example the evidence that you are looking at a tree when you are looking at a tree. Whoever passes by would presumably be able to confirm that they, too, can see the tree.

If we can all see it, it is objective, whatever it is. And we see it is part of the natural world.

The natural world is just everything about which we are able to have objective evidence. Whatever we can all agree that we perceive it one way or the other.

If there is objective evidence of the existence of something, then we just think this something is part of the natural world.

Still, humans have been around for something like 300,000 years. This is quite a long time and presumably long enough for most people to agree on most of what there is. And we do.

Whatever remains that we cannot agree on is precisely things about which we have no objective evidence.

So, just get good objective evidence. Evidence that we could all agree on.

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    And the problem becomes what one admits as/considers evidence... Commented Apr 23 at 16:21
  • Scientific realism, which developed after modern physics overturned classical physics, and presumes eliminative reductionism to microphysics, hold that the things we perceive at the macro scale are not real -- hence "seeing a tree" is not actually evidence that there is a tree. The delusionist schools of philosophy of mind has also successfully demonstrated that all our perceptions are manufactured, so "seeing" is a lot less direct than you are presuming.
    – Dcleve
    Commented Apr 23 at 16:31
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    @Dcleve "the things we perceive at the macro scale are not real" So anyone can come to your house, burn the thing down, and then you two could just have a good laugh and perhaps have a nice beer at the pub just to see what else he could set fire to? Nothing of that would be real, anyway. Could you confirm that this is really what you mean, because I wouldn't want anyone to end up in the jailhouse? There are other ways to say it, but I guess this should be enough. Commented Apr 24 at 10:14
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    @Dcleve "But that isn't objectivity" We could also look at the moon and say, that isn't the moon. The point is we can all look at the moon and agree to call it "the moon", and then further agree that it is objectively true that this is the moon. If we do that, we are not going to care if some dude gives a different name to it or even says this isn't objectivity. You are merely repeating the parochial debates among philosophers who most of them certainly don't want anyone but themselves to decide what is to be calles "objectivity". Commented Apr 24 at 16:18
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    @Dcleve "That invalid presumption of "truth" (...) psychological error among us humans." You would have to give a concrete example of what you mean. - 2. "So is the presumption that we know our own minds." Don't be silly. - 3. "See Incognito by Eagleman" Where exactly? - 4. "Both internal and external inferences off limited and fallible data are what we have to live with." It is quite funny how scientists who long denied that we even had a mind now try to convince us that they have an expertise on it! I am 100% certain that you are using their definition of the word "mind". I don't. Commented Apr 25 at 15:37

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